Self-Initiation
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93,
Red Eagle of Death wrote (regarding email):
"...or can they? "
Well, they can and do, in my experience.
Uni Verse wrote (regarding self-initiation):
"What I do remember is that it was brutal."
I tried self-initiating about 15 years ago. I stopped in mid-ritual, because I realized I simply didn't know what I was doing. Just because I had a script meant nothing, because I had no real clue what the empowering intelligence in all of it really was. Next day, since this was in pre-email days, I started making phone-calls to the few contacts I had.
93 93/93,
EM
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93 all
Oh yes, i am ready to be spirit guided..
and if you can recall that pdf of that self-initiation ritual, id greatly appreciate it..
You can do the A.'. A.'. and G.'. D.'. all by yourself by initiation in your own temple.. and the spirits DO appear.
How do you think it was all started, someone had to be self-initiated!!
93 93/93 King
P.S which came first. The Initiator of the Candidate?
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93,
I did write "pure Spirit," not "spirits." That's the catch - what you get if you do it on your own is what your conscious mind (or pre-conscious, maybe) is capable of embracing or reaching towards. That might end up falling far short of a true initiatory energy.
I don't think "it all started" with somebody self-initiating. I think somebody was initiated without conscious volition, so that his or psyche couldn't interfere and block uncomfortable realities.
93 93/93,
EM
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@Edward Mason said
"I think somebody was initiated without conscious volition, so that his or psyche couldn't interfere and block uncomfortable realities."
...as is the case w/ the stoned monkey scenario
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At the end of the day, all Initiation is Self-Initiation.
But the A.'.A.'. System, in my opinion, is more easily adapted by a person not involved in an Order than the Golden Dawn System.
Of course, one could adapt the Golden Dawn System in such a way to facilitate Self-Initiation but that is not the same thing as being Initiated into the Golden Dawn. The Golden Dawn System is a system that requires a Group to work properly - there really is no getting around this.
In my opinion, one is much better off moving if they have to in order to train in the Golden Dawn System from a legitimate Group than hacking it alone or with a group of other people who are trying to learn from book/s.
The A.'.A.'. System can be more easily worked at a distance and would only require travel in order to test for the next grade and for the Probatoiner Ceremony and the 1=10 and 2=9 Initiations...
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Arsihsis, 93,
"...as is the case w/ the stoned monkey scenario"
I know two bad jokes involving stoned monkeys, and a band by that name, but not a scenario. Care to clarify?
93 93/93,
EM
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@Edward Mason said
"Arsihsis, 93,
"...as is the case w/ the stoned monkey scenario"
I know two bad jokes involving stoned monkeys, and a band by that name, but not a scenario. Care to clarify?
93 93/93,
EM"
I'd love to hear those jokes some time
The stoned ape theory, as it is actually called, was espoused by the late Terence McKenna. Here is an excerpt from wiki that conveys the general idea:
*McKenna theorized that as the North African jungles receded, near the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to savannas and grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the forest canopy and began to live in the open areas outside of the forest. There they experimented with new varieties of foods as they adapted, physically and mentally, to their new environment.
Among the new food items found in this new environment were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing near the dung of ungulate herds that occupied the savannas and grasslands at that time. McKenna, referencing the research of Roland L. Fisher, claimed that enhancement of visual acuity was an effect of psilocybin at low doses, and supposed that this would have conferred an adaptive advantage. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including sexual arousal, and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia â gave selective evolutionary advantages to members of those tribes who partook of it.*
This same scenario could easily be carried over into the discussion of solo initiation & the emergence of the religious inclination in general.
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93 all
On what Tony D. said, thats true G.'. D.'. is group work.. But anymore, you really cant find a true Lineage that is SERIOUS about golden dawn work. That is why basically the Aeon of Horus is the new covenant. What I mean is Thelema is more solitary in it's initiation and workings.
One of the main themes of the A.'. A.'. is to prove that you can perform the practical magick before you can go to the next grade, that you have proficient knowledge of the whole point of that grade and the kabblistic principles of that grade.. I've been burned by a Lineage of the A.'. A.'. I will not say which one, but I feel that the only serious and true lineage that carries on true A.'. A.'. principles is the Soror Estai Lineage.. (and i'm not saying that because of who administrates this forum) i'm saying that because I can witness that by the fruit of their works..
The lineage I belonged to did not prove what needed to happen. the "spirit" was not present. I even Invoked horus incessantly, and, some knowledge occurred to me after invoking him about other avenues.And Edward, You are right about "pure" spirit. The only thing is, there are dangers to going off publications and books without in-person tutoring. I just feel that being self taught is just as good as someone teaching you..
my last comment is this.. In ancient egypt, the pharoahs had magic practicing priest, Jannes and Jambres.. Said to be the strongest magicians the world has ever seen. it was said that many of them were self-initiated. what do you all think
93 93/93
King
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There are definitely a few SERIOUS Golden Dawn Orders with valid Lineage around, the Temple of Thelema is one for example...
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93
In that context, the Initiate is not "someone that belongs to a brotherhood":
Nobody turns you on a True initiate through a simple "oath" or "ceremony". The Initiation came from the seeker's own work. It is not a self-initiation?
S.R.