Working with the earth element for starters
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ok, good im catching on, i understand things better written in lamen terms, so meditate, work with divinition, and with tav, that is for particularly when i get out of my body and do the exercises in Liber O sections 5 and 6 right?
and i dont have a thoth deck, but i do have a beautiful graphic tarot deck of Elves if that will work, it didnt come with a book though, i do that the meanings for each tarot card written down somewhere from one of the books fo the A'.'A'.'.now regarding the rituals, and working with malkuth, like just getting the methods for the LBRP down, ive memorized the one out of Liber O, should i just stick with it the way it is? but like you said it (zero's) out your space, what would you suggest putting in that space and how for starters? (how meaning if anything specific a teacher would tell a neophyte)
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in what order should the rituals be done?, and working with malkuth, any particular invocations?, order of rituals to be done?
I know if you put the rituals together in the order meant(that i dont know) and particular invocation or banishing (that i dont know either) leads to contacting your HGA, and when done right, one should be able to see the angels invoked.
In Liber O, yet it gives the rituals, and all the invoking and banishing signs for each, is it up to me to play with them? or are there certain elemental/planetary correspondences the neophyte should work with, and the order it should be done, and correspondences to be used?
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@Alias55A said
"in what order should the rituals be done?, and working with malkuth, any particular invocations?, order of rituals to be done?"
If I'm understanding your questions correctly, then nobody can answer that question for you.
The exception would be if you were part of a specific system with its own instructional protocol, or working under a particular instructor with a specific teaching plan.
Otherwise, the conditions and circumstances are simply too wide and diverse. Other than in those two circumstances named, nobody can meaningfully answer this question. You just have to decide.
"I know if you put the rituals together in the order meant(that i dont know) and particular invocation or banishing (that i dont know either) leads to contacting your HGA, and when done right, one should be able to see the angels invoked."
Wrong. Nobody has written the ritual that is YOUR formula for attaining to the K&C of the HGA. Your task at the level you are describing working is to master techniques, build your armory, equip yourself, and gain certain fundamental capabilities such as the ability to oiperate consciously and under control in the World of Yetzirah (aka "astral travel").
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"If I'm understanding your questions correctly, then nobody can answer that question for you.
The exception would be if you were part of a specific system with its own instructional protocol, or working under a particular instructor with a specific teaching plan.
Otherwise, the conditions and circumstances are simply too wide and diverse. Other than in those two circumstances named, nobody can meaningfully answer this question. You just have to decide."
ok, so sure saying like even the A'.'A'.' , theres no certain way to accomplish the goals in the neophyte grade, since its sensative to each individuals needs, like how you've stated before about having to be there to realy give advice on getting out of body and things you need to do because you study them in person, physicaly and astraly.
So i have to decided what exactly i need to do, and figure it out myself to obtain the neophyte goals of mastering the astral so to speak, since i dont have a qualified teacher per se to give me a more person formula.
"Wrong. Nobody has written the ritual that is YOUR formula for attaining to the K&C of the HGA. Your task at the level you are describing working is to master techniques, build your armory, equip yourself, and gain certain fundamental capabilities such as the ability to oiperate consciously and under control in the World of Yetzirah (aka "astral travel")."
i know AC mentioned it, that using the techniques given in Liber O and what not can be put together in a way to the attainment of YOUR HGA.
But he didnt mention a specific formula.So im on my own for attaining these thing at the moment
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ok, sorry if i seem buggy ive just been trying to make sense of the material, and slowly but surely getting their with everyones great input and advice, but regarding Liber O, I understand the LRP and the LRH, not the GRP and GRH, LRP and the LRH it gives specific instructions for, but not for GRP and GRH. In LRP it is described as banishing, and LRH is described as a invoking, which in order you perform LRP then LRH.
Now the GRP i suppose you do right after following the LRH, but it does not gives specific instruction on weather to banish or invoke, also that it talks about making the signs of the portals??? (the pics with the instructions on stances 1-10 in front of the book?), and it doesnt give specific instruction on which on do you trace the pentagrams first? or after you make the portal signs. And the GRH doesnt give specific instruction either, only examples of either invoking jupiter or caput and cauda draconis???
And for LRP and LRH, the vibration of the names, do you just vibrate them? or do the 2nd exercise for vibration of god-names by inhaling them, and exhaust the power of the name from your body? like when you are facing east, tracing the banishing earth pentagram and vibrating yo he vau he.
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@Alias55A said
"Now the GRP i suppose you do right after following the LRH"
No. In fact, if you are doing an elemental ritual warranting an invocation by the Pentagram ritual, you may not have to do the Hexagram ritual at all.
"also that it talks about making the signs of the portals??? (the pics with the instructions on stances 1-10 in front of the book?), and it doesnt give specific instruction on which on do you trace the pentagrams first?"
The Signs of the Portal are used specifically with the Spirit pentagrams. The 1=10 sign is used with the Earth pentagram, etc.
The normal approach is that you trace the pentagram, vibrate the Name, then give the corresponding sign.
"And the GRH doesnt give specific instruction either, only examples of either invoking jupiter or caput and cauda draconis???"
You might want to add Regardie's original Golden Dawn volumes, or get someone to teach you these in person.
"And for LRP and LRH, the vibration of the names, do you just vibrate them? or do the 2nd exercise for vibration of god-names by inhaling them, and exhaust the power of the name from your body? like when you are facing east, tracing the banishing earth pentagram and vibrating yo he vau he."
The technique you are describing is as "the 2nd exercise" is usually employed only with the specific Divine Name of a particular invoked force, not with the generic rituals.
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"No. In fact, if you are doing an elemental ritual warranting an invocation by the Pentagram ritual, you may not have to do the Hexagram ritual at all."
explain?, so if i do the LBRP and just want to skip to invoking an element, lets say i wanted to invoke the earth element for malkuth in the GRP, just use banishing pentagrams for all except north/earth? and could i do the hexagram ritual even though it might not be required for the specific working, but just to do it for practice?
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@Alias55A said
"explain?, so if i do the LBRP and just want to skip to invoking an element, lets say i wanted to invoke the earth element for malkuth in the GRP, just use banishing pentagrams for all except north/earth?"
Several things confounded here that I'll try to sort out.
First, invoking "the earth element for malkuth" compounds two separate ideas. The way of invoking the Element of Earth may differ from the way of invoking the Sephirah Malkuth. (May; then again, may not. Other considerations.) I'm going to take it, though, that you mean, simply, invoking the Element of Earth.
Next: No, you don't banish everything except Earth. The Earth you don't banish likely will be imbalanced and comingled. Also, there is no reason to banish the other factors individually.
The basic concept is: Get to Zero, then introduce a single idea. The general way to accomplish this is to do a general banishing - the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is appropriate in most circumstances - and then do a separate Invoking Pentagram Ritual of the Element of Earth.
Historically (in original GD days), the separate invocation of Earth would have been by the Supreme (what Crowley mislabeled or relabeled "Greater") Pentagram Ritual, but you can also use the lesser. The Lesser Invoking Pentagram Ritual of Earth looks exactly like the generic Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram (since both use invoking Earth pentagrams) except that you use colors and intention to make clear that you are invoking the element Earth specifically.
Or, you can ramp up the juice by using the Supreme Invoking Pentagram Ritual of Earth. (I suggest that you move to this only after a fair bit of experience with the Lesser. In the G.D., this wouldn't have even been taught until Second Order.) This ritual is identical with the LBR except for the portion where the pentagrams are drawn. For that part, you trace an invoking Passive Spirit pentagram, charge it with Attah Gibbor le-Olam Adonai, give the Portal signs, then trace an invoking Earth pentagram, charge it with Adonai, and give the Earth (1=10) sign. Repeat in each quarter.
" and could i do the hexagram ritual even though it might not be required for the specific working, but just to do it for practice?"
The question would be... why? What is your intention in doing so? (To answer your question, yes, you could; but, again, part of employing it is in wondering why?) If you're invoking something serious that you plan to work with, "just for practice" is not a good reason! (It's almost the same as saying, "So, when I'm invoking Earth, could I also invoke Air just for practice?")
When finished with your particular working, BTW, you should then banish the invoked element by the Banishing form of the same pentagram ritual you used to invoke it; or, in most cases, the standard LBR is sufficient.
One place you might want to use the Hexagram Ritual also is if you are doing an invocation of the Sephirah Malkuth, of which the invocation of elemental Earth is only a subset or preliminary. In that case, the program might look something like this:
- Banishing Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram
- Banishing Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram
- Invoking Lesser (or optionally Supreme) Pentagram Ritual of Earth
- Invoking Greater Hexagram Ritual of Malkuth
- (whatever work you set out to do on this occasion now that you have the energies invoked)
- Greater Banishing Hexagram Ritual of Malkuth (or, optionally, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram)
- Banishing Pentagram Ritual (of Earth or generic, depending on what you originally invoked with, what you did in [6], overall integrity of the ritual, etc.)
The Greater Invoking Hexagram Ritual of Malkuth would use Malkuth hexagrams (originating at the bottom point); would be charged with at least the Divine and Archangelic Names of Malkuth plus A.R.A.R.I.T.A.; and would use only the Earth form of the hexagram.
Does that help?
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yes, quite a bit, i hope im not annoying you with stupid questions, but somebody had to answer them , you are filling in the blanks for me for 2 purposes. 1, things that Liber O and what not dont tell you. 2, feedback from a qualified teacher, or person like you .
lol, and i didnt say i wanted to invoke air with earth just for practice. But if im understanding you correctly, the pentagram ritual are for invoking BASIC elements while the hexagram rituals are for sephiroth and planetary invocations. And with the Greater pentagram ritual, do the same style with the Greater hexagram ritual, in a manner of speaking per se as invoking whatever the particular world/element/planet ect.. in each corner, rince and repeat right? but with using the hexagram formula, not the pentagram.
One last question finally lol, ok lets say i invoked the earth element as a preliminary for malkuth, when you invoke it in each cardinal direction, why? are their certain aspects of energy from each element in each corner? like air earth, fire earth, water earth, and earth earth? kinda like the triplicities of the zodiac . pg 42, book 777. like different qualities of earth alchemicaly mixed with the other elements to incompass the whole element in its entirety?
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@Alias55A said
"yes, quite a bit, i hope im not annoying you with stupid questions, but somebody had to answer them , you are filling in the blanks for me for 2 purposes. 1, things that Liber O and what not dont tell you. 2, feedback from a qualified teacher, or person like you ."
Liber O wasn't meant to be used alone, but in combination with direct instruction. The only frustrating thing about your questions is that you are more or less starting in the middle. There are preliminaries you don't know that are roughly equal to what one would get in one semester of a college class in some other subject.
In any case, I'm glad it helps.
"But if im understanding you correctly, the pentagram ritual are for invoking BASIC elements while the hexagram rituals are for sephiroth and planetary invocations."
The Pentagram is for controlling the Elements. The Hexagram is for controlling the planets (and, in most cases, the Sephiroth). Zodiacal signs can be regarded either as essentially elemental or essentially planetary (or a mix), and are governed accordingly. Sephiroth are in some situations regarded as essentially elemental and thus controlled by the Pentagram, but that's primarily when the Sephiroth are being used as particular expressions of the Elements (as in the First Order traditional rituals where the Sephiroth below Tiphereth are the elemental expression).
"And with the Greater pentagram ritual, do the same style with the Greater hexagram ritual, in a manner of speaking per se as invoking whatever the particular world/element/planet ect.. in each corner, rince and repeat right? but with using the hexagram formula, not the pentagram."
More or less. One problem with the hexagram is that there are significant blinds (or, rather, things left out or insufficiently explained) in Liber O.
"One last question finally lol, ok lets say i invoked the earth element as a preliminary for malkuth, when you invoke it in each cardinal direction, why? are their certain aspects of energy from each element in each corner?"
Just for the balanced nature of the ritual. You're right, though, that there could be exceptions. For example, if you were consecrating a Pantacle, and had an altar set up in the north where all the action would be, and an elemental tablet (Enochian or otherwise) on or behind the altar, you might focus all of your attention only on that portion and not invoke the energy into the whole temple space. - Doing all quarters is the way to bring the force into saturation level of the whole temple space.
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lol, ya i guess i have a bad habit of starting in the middle, but not gonna go to deep at the moment, , just goin to master the techniques like you said. Preliminaries like student, probate?, i have all the material for the first three grades, but their not in any kind of order lol so i get confused , i just figure ile master the techniques and catch up on the reading which is what ive been doin, or tryin to do lol.
And yes you have cleared some stuff up for me, so how do i get ahold of the stuff left out about the hexagram ritual? or if you feal like explaining it