Psychedelic Enlightment?
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@Tinman said
"Another way of approaching the topic that may be of some interest (at least to me):
Does anyone have any scientific research material on states in the brain during "enlightenment" moments?
Does anyone have any scientific research material on states in the brain during "psychedelic" moments that seem similar enough to the "enlightenment" moments?
Does anyone have any scientific research material on states in the brain during "psychedelic" moments of non-enlightenment versus enlightenment? I'd be interested in peak vs non-peak moments (which some drugs seem to be partial to)?
The Scientist wants physical evidence for enlightenment moments based on the foundational assumption that with the right tool, we can measure everything. The Skeptic is not so sure that is possible, but for the time being I've bound and gagged him.
The Scientist found this interesting which led to his questions:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8N4"
Look up Andrew Newberg and James H. Austin.
Ken Wilber is a new age philosopher, not a scientist.
93 93/93
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The Herb Dangerous essays in the Equinox are among the best I have seen regarding magickal use of weed, particularlt part 2. Part 1 is a pharmaceutical study, useful for dosage, extraction, etc. While sometimes hash and other chemicals can help you get to the frequency you need, I believe one should always strive to achieve them naturally at some point. Natural changes in consciousness are more potent, last longer, and have less noise/side effects than chemically assisted. Its the getting there without herbs and gasses and doses thats the hard work.
A PHARMACEUTICAL STUDY
www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no1/eqi01015.htmlTHE PSYCHOLOGY OF HASHISH
www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no2/eqi02004.html -
I like topics like these
, but at the moment on this new laptop i dont have any links to scientific study's at the moment till i get them back, but i have seen a couple like they took a couple yogi's and hook up some stuff to them so they can see kinda what go on in the brain during meditation, and from what is showed, its almost as if the whole brain lights up. Also another one is you give lsd to a laymen and he trips ofcourse, but giving one to a yogi wont realy do anything, because they worked for decades on achieving that state of mind. I have a couple friends who went to a Native American tribe and smoked some peyote with the cheif to "find their path" which is a very spiritual experience that would be lovely to partake.but when it comes to study's and experiments on psychedelics/entheogens/hallucinogen and the affects they have on the mind reffering to spiritual experiences, theres alot of info on <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.psychonaut.com">www.psychonaut.com</a><!-- w -->
psychonaut = one who is on the path of mastering substence to aid and acheive spiritual enlightenment and expanding ones consciousness.
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@sethur said
"I have always, in spite of my own experiences, been very wary of "psuchedelic" enlightenment. However, having just read "The Cosmic Serpent - DNA and the Origins of Consciousness" by Jeremy Narby, a very serious academic, I've changed my mind. It is worth noting, though, that LSD and Psilocybin are not true hallucinogens. The true experiences seem to involve DMT, which I've never tried."
LSD and Psilocybin are 'true' hallucinogens, they just don't usually cause 'true hallucinations'.
'True hallucinations' are mistaken for actual reality, 'pseudo-hallucinations' happen in the 'mind's eye' superimposed over normal vision yet they're still 'true' experiences.Psilocybin is 4-hydroxylated DMT and can cause 'true hallucinations' in high doses.
Narby's theory of pseudo-hallucinations being UV light projected by DNA and percieved by the pineal is interesting.
@Aum418 said
"Ken Wilber is a new age philosopher, not a scientist."
Ken Wiber is an integral philosopher and layman transpersonal psychologist. He's not an academic but he's very scientific and is critical of the 'new age' movement.
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Anyone have an opinion on salvia divinorum?
I notice this is legal and sold in smoke shops. No clue as to its safety or "mystical" effects.
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It's quite powerful, and not the sort of thing that lends itself to frequent abuse.
It's a brief but powerful trip. If one stays conscious, then the effects can include synesthesia, giggling, glossolalia. Often, though, once one has reached a threshold dosage, they will go catatonic, and have a dissociative trip lasting 5-15 minutes.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"It's quite powerful, and not the sort of thing that lends itself to frequent abuse.
It's a brief but powerful trip. If one stays conscious, then the effects can include synesthesia, giggling, glossolalia. Often, though, once one has reached a threshold dosage, they will go catatonic, and have a dissociative trip lasting 5-15 minutes."
Thanks. I read it can produce OBEs... any opinion on that?
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Salvia is a very, very strong drug. I don't know about getting OBEs with it, since Salvia affects the proprioceptory modality and often has an extremely weird and uncomfortable body load, but the uber strong hallucinogens like Salvia and DMT have a distinct "breakthrough" stage which it is pointless to describe (though many accounts are available online if you want to look) except to say that to compare it to an OBE does it no justice.
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@Escarabaj said
"Anyone have an opinion on salvia divinorum?
I notice this is legal and sold in smoke shops. No clue as to its safety or "mystical" effects."
Salvia Divinorum is sold in a variety of preparations; each has its own variety of potency and effect. As far as the "psychedelic experience" is concerned, Salvia induces a state somewhat similar to that of DMT: there is an instant "changing of the planes," and some degree of hallucination is usually present. The difference is this, however: the influence of Salvia produces a distinctly uncomfortable feeling, and is much more intoxicating. DMT produces a blissful, integrated realization: the revelations of Salvia are distant, obscure, and altogether piecemeal.
Some have likened such revelations to the state called Samadhi. The simple fact is this: there is no royal road to wisdom. Any who seek to realize an Arcanum, without the necessary preparations and discipline, is like a child playing with fire, and is often burned.
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@v0rtex666 said
"The Herb Dangerous essays in the Equinox are among the best I have seen regarding magical use of weed, particularlt part 2. Part 1 is a pharmaceutical study, useful for dosage, extraction, etc. While sometimes hash and other chemicals can help you get to the frequency you need, I believe one should always strive to achieve them naturally at some point. Natural changes in consciousness are more potent, last longer, and have less noise/side effects than chemically assisted. Its the getting there without herbs and gasses and doses thats the hard work.
A PHARMACEUTICAL STUDY
www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no1/eqi01015.htmlTHE PSYCHOLOGY OF HASHISH
www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no2/eqi02004.html"Agreed on all points. As a former herb fancier, I can attest the fact that while it may help the beginner to open their conciousness, and to break down spiritual barriers, habitual use tends to cause apathy and burn-out. This isn't to say that marijuana is evil--indeed, every intoxicant has some sort of value--but in the end such things are more hindrance than help when used merely for their pleasurable affects.
Crowley's treatment of hashish is brilliant, by the way. His words on absinthe and cocaine are also excellent. Crowley was greatly responsible for the psychedelic explosion in the west, if I am correct. Is it true that he introduced Aldous Huxley to peyote? Or is that just hearsay? (Huxley's book "Doors of Perception" is a must-read for any student of the subject. It is here that he likens the mescaline trance to Samadhi. )
I also reccomend the section on the "sacred grass of the arabs" in Liber Aleph.
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@JPF said
"As a former herb fancier, I can attest the fact that while it may help the beginner to open their conciousness, and to break down spiritual barriers, habitual use tends to cause apathy and burn-out. This isn't to say that marijuana is evil--indeed, every intoxicant has some sort of value--but in the end such things are more hindrance than help when used merely for their pleasurable affects."
I concur. For me it was the mind/body barrier (i.e., union vs. distinction) that was the greatest affected. All drugs [edit: within reason; i.e., huffing aerosol won't enlighten you!--think more towards the entheogens.] have positive potential for anyone (heroin's a toughy to control), so long as the person is responsible and doesn't rely on them as the sole means indefinitely. I have known people who have done a few hits of freebase cocaine (crack), who went on to discuss politics, religion, etc., with good insight. I have also known people who have done a few hits of freebase cocaine, who afterwards were crawling on their hands and knees picking up chips of paint and fuzzies, looking for another hit. It all boils down to perspective, willpower, and focus.
"By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them."
- Liber O
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@seekinghga said
" I have also known people who have done a few hits of freebase cocaine, who afterwards were crawling on their hands and knees picking up chips of paint and fuzzies, looking for another hit. "
Brings back memories...thankfully I've been emancipated from all such tomfoolery.The problem with contemporary drug use is this: there is absolutely no telling as to its purity. A hit of LSD could very well contain an alarming variety of chemicals designed to imitate or "enhance" the real deal. With the synthetic drugs like ecstacy and crack the ingredients are even more alarming. I stopped taking such things recreationally for just this reason. There are more pure and wholesome ways of "getting high".
With things like psilocybin, peyote, and marijuana, there is a much lesser danger of dosing oneself with laundry detergent. The realizations afforded by these substances are often integral to the spiritual development of the prepared mind. Yet, as always, Do What Thou Wilt.
Indeed, it boils down to perspective. Many great works of literature have been written "under the influence." There is a great difference between the effect a drug has upon an intelligent, spiritually trained mind, and the effect it has upon the layman. Yet, it's also easy for the greatest of minds to get carried away. Observe the long, rambling, disconnected passages in Crowley's "autohagiography."
What it comes down to is this: does this substance enable me to realize my Will? Crowley gives a great examination of this in "Diary of a Drug Fiend," which is a must-read for any student of drug culture. Then again, one wonders if the book wansn't written to justify his own shortcomings. It's obvious that heroin and cocaine became for him a crutch, and contributed to his demise as a teacher and as a human being.
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Cannabis (Marijuana) Psychedelic Mushrooms Entheogenic Mushrooms (amanitas) Unrefined Opium Coca Leaves and arguably less so LSD and DMT are Naturally occurring Drugs that can assist or hinder the user on their path to enlightenment. Everyone is unique and will take a unique path on their quest for enlightenment. Nature is Perfect you can't improve on her. (LSD and DMT are found in such small dosages in nature their effects are minimal until extracted and concentrated)
Man made drugs such as Heroine Cocaine MDMA (ecstasy) Methamphetamine arguably Alcohol all produce pleasure but since mankind at its present stage is self-destructive they seem to only lead to destruction. (Whether a short or long path) I see no basis in these drugs assisting one in enlightenment. I do pose the question Is Alcohol created by nature and only assisted by man? If one accepts that then it can be used to assist the user.
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Nature is full of poisonous things too.
The idea that "natural" is somehow perfect is naive. That's why your alcohol question is fundamentally flawed.
Many plants have evolved to be more palatable to living things, and living things have evolved to digest plants and other living things.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Nature is full of poisonous things too.
The idea that "natural" is somehow perfect is naive. That's why your alcohol question is fundamentally flawed.
Many plants have evolved to be more palatable to living things, and living things have evolved to digest plants and other living things."
Well-made point. I'm reminded of the following quote from Unintelligent Design: Why God Isn't As Smart As She Thinks She Is, by Robyn Williams:
Halitosis, farting, vaginal discharge, reflux, snoring, rheumatism, warts, smelly armpits, varicose veins, menopause, brewer’s droop . . . these are not the marks of a designer at the top of his game. They are the trademarks of a natural process giving us only as much as we need to stay alive.
Of course this is in relation to the argument about "intelligent design", but it's a good reminder in the context of this thread too. I think actually that even Crowley himself was prone to wax over-lyrical about the wonders of Nature.
Consider also, for example, re. food itself, how the physiology and biology of a substantial proportion of the population isn't even adapted to milk and milk products (them being introduced into human culture only relatively recently in evolutionary terms). Some aren't even adapted to pulses.
I actually like the phrase "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed". Yes, we are wise to go with the Nature's grain as much as possible, but that doesn't mean we have fawn over what's "natural". We are free to do as we will, we just have to be careful and respect our extant biology, and the balance of the natural world.
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@Promise said
"LSD is not naturally accurring in nature, it is man made. You're probably thinking of LSA which is a completely different drug that causes similar effects as LSD."
Quite right. And, technically speaking, most intoxicants are in the nature of poisons. They influence the mind by producing temporary shortages of one essential chemical or another, which in turn alters brain chemistry and produces the "psychedelic experience." This is, of course, a cursory description. The real process is a little more complex than that.
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You're right i am thinking of LSA... Can't nature produce the perfect poison? I fail to see how poisonous plants or plants that we have not yet found uses for are not perfect in what they are. My reasoning on alcohol is flawed and bias. I see a lot of negative effects from alcohol and I've yet to see someone ONLY benefit from alcohol with NO negative consequences, no matter how small. I can't say for all but I can say what I've seen. (anyways late night rambles usually carry their flaws)
My point which i didn't outline well is that mankind in its present evolution will not create a drug that does not have some flaws. We are imperfect beings so what we create will be imperfect. Not to say that and individual can't benefit from man made drugs. But pharmaceutical synthetic drugs are a step backwards in effectiveness than the plant they derived the pills from. (and usually have nasty side effects). Not to say that their plant counterparts do not carry side effects. Pharmaceutical companies can't make money if their products are second to nature AND people are aware of it. Anyways holistic medicine knowledge has been pretty much lost in the present day so we are pretty much stuck with western medicine until the knowledge is regained. (that or spiritual healing)
Nature is Perfect and Unchanging yet the Unchanging is Change. Every individual will take an individual path. What is perfect for 1 is not perfect for another. I do believe that you will have less negative side effects from plants created in nature than pills made in factories. But the line in between is not always clear (for me i think of alcohol) -
Albert Hoffman, pioneer of LSD research and self-proclaimed psychonaut, lived to be over 100--fit as a fiddle, I might add. The world in which we live is going to be flawed one way or another, and we all ingest some sort of "poison" on a daily basis, in the food we eat, in the air we breathe, etc.
What psychedelics have to teach us is this: Mind over Matter. This is one of the most fundamental doctrines of Magick, inherent in its most basic principles (i.e., the Pentagram.)