Daath
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I agree with the duplicity, which is why I can't at all agree with Uranus - which is naked truth. Were I to attribute a planet to the Abyss it would be Neptune - which is the essence of duplicity! (Among other reasons.)"
I was going off of Crowley's "General Principles of Astrology," in which he attributes Uranus to Daath and Neptune to Chokmah. Then again, Astrology was never Crowley's strong point.
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I don't believe that we can go back the "original Tree" and learn anything useful. Was it Malkuth who occupied that position between Chokmah and Binah? Was it Tiphareth? Was it Yesod? I have read convincing arguments for each of these* "original configuations,"* and most of them have few 'salient' points, in the end.
I believe that since we can't really get back to that distant time (whenever it was) we should begin our examination and our exploration of the Tree as it exists for us today. One of my favorite quotes from the Sefer Yetzirah: "There are ten and not nine, ten and not eleven." Making Da'ath a Sephira is not only wrong, it flies in the face of the clear instructions we have for comprehension of the Tree as it is.
As most are aware, the word "da'ath" in Hebrew means "knowledge." Interesting how this sephirah that isn't a sephirah is placed between the two Sephirah of Binah (Understanding) and Chokmah (Wisdom). Is 'Knowledge' somehow the 'bridge' between these two concepts? If we have enough 'Knowledge' will we be able to 'understand' with our 'wisdom' the nature of the Tree, the nature of Man, and the nature of what has happened to creation to place us in this mess -- alienation from one another and from God?
The Sephirah Kether sits atop this Binah - Chokmah combination, and it clearly 'comprehends' the nature of the two (Understanding and Wisdom). Is this what the serpent meant when he told humanity that we'd be like god? That we'd have a 'view' of the Sephirah closest to God? It is clear to most, however, that Da'ath is a poor *'reflection' *of the glory that is Kether. Yes, it is the serpent in Genesis that offers "Knowledge;" but it is not just any 'knowledge' that he is offering, it is the 'knowledge of good and evil.' This seems to me to be a logical outcome for someone who *'Understands' *and has 'Wisdom.' However, Da'ath sees these Sephirah from the bottom; it is Kether that sees them from the top, and in that divine vision, understands the two Sephirah (and their relationships) far more deeply than Da'ath ever can or could.
The serpent is offering the gift of godhood -- perhaps not in this present lifetime, but in those that follow, as the 'knowledge' learned in one incarnation gets *'carried over' into the next. And, as our 'knowledge' continues to grow, not just through the serpent's "gift," *but through our own experienes over several lifetimes, we learn to create a "bridge" -- not a Sephirah (just as Pluto is not a planet), but a "bridge" that enables us to 'close the loop' between "Understanding" and "Wisdom;" and in so doing, we become the gods we were always meant to be.
However, our "Knowledge" will always remain limited as we are seeing the relationship of Understanding and Wisdom from the bottom (from humanity UP). It is only until we are able to somehow unite with Kether that we will see that all our "Knowledge," all our "Understanding," and all our "Wisdom," is as illusion.
These are just my thoughts. I'm eager to hear yours,
**93 93/93
Neshamah ** -
I forgot something that I think I should add:
I see Chokmah as Uranus. The Masloth (Starry Heavens) seems to correspond to Uranus more closely than any others.
I see Kether as Neptune: The definition of Kether as the "primordial swirlings" seems to describe Kether much better than Pluto (which is a large rock -- with perhaps ice and iron as part of its make-up.
I see Da'ath as Pluto: The Sephirah that is not a Sephirah is best exemplified as a planet that isn't a planet. Furthermore, in astrology, Pluto is a planet of Transformation, which is best portrayed as the non-Sephirah Da'ath (**Pluto **is very often closely associated with death -- as the non-Sephirah of Da'ath).
I left this out of my previous post; I felt that this information might be helpful in understanding some of my concepts and ideas above.
Peace to all.
93 93/93
Neshamah -
I've stayed out of this because (1) I didn't have time to write it up right and (2) this has all been covered in many other threads. But, for those interested enough to click on links and dig, here are some posts I've made on this subject (directly or indirectly) in the past:
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"I don't believe that we can go back the "original Tree" and learn anything useful. Was it Malkuth who occupied that position between Chokmah and Binah? Was it Tiphareth? Was it Yesod? I have read convincing arguments for each of these "original configuations," and most of them have few 'salient' points, in the end."
I ponder frequently the idea that Da'ath isn't a sephirah because it stands for the entire Tree below it.
In other words, if the three Supernals and Da'ath are considered in terms of an equal-armed cross, Da'ath is that "disunity" at the bottom end of the spectrum of which Khether is the top. That "disunity" is represented by all the myriad expressions of the self which gain individual, experiential knowledge - or as individual centers of conscious expression.
But these individual centers of expression each have elements within them that reflect aspects of the Supernal Triad, so it's necessary to kind of ....click on the thumbnail image at Da'ath... enlarge it... and then compare the "enlarged map of Da'ath" (aspects of each individuality) to the Supernals - which gives us the Tree as we know it.
Da'ath is the sephira that "is not" because it marks the end of the "enlarged map," where consciousness of individuality ends, and one can only then think in terms of the Supernals.
Just a hypothesis.
Thoughts?
p.s. Jim posted just before I did, and I haven't had time to read any of the links.. Peace.
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And the earth is flat, you know, and if you sail far enough you will fall off the end.
(Just teasing.) -
@Jim Eshelman said
"And the earth is flat, you know, and if you sail far enough you will fall off the end.
(Just teasing.)"Is this meant for me? I'm not sure I understand why my post prompted you to see me as a member of the Flat Earth Society.
@Frater LR said
"gah gah... goo goo..."
I don't know what to say to this. I really don't see my position as being childish; in fact, I have over 100 pages of material that helps prove my approach (along with pages and pages of endnotes and a Bibliography).
At any rate, I can take a hint.
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No, man. Pretty sure I'm the flatlander.
Unless otherwise noted, responses are usually to the immediately preceding post.
gah gah... goo goo... was me
Consciousness of individuality doesn't end when a person crooses the abyss. I wasn't expressing my thoughts very well or consistently. Trying to think of how to express myself better or redo the hypothesis...
Perhaps the "illusion" of individuality being shattered would be a better way of expressing it.
Thinking...
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@Ankhenaton said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"And the earth is flat, you know, and if you sail far enough you will fall off the end.
(Just teasing.)"Is this meant for me?"
No.
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Ok; sorry guys. I misunderstood your posts completely.
No harm, no foul.
I'd like to make my thesis available for a few people here, to look over and give me some constructive criticism. It will be during the springtime (maybe even summer). That is, if it is alright with you . . .
May you all receive the Peace you deserve,
93 93/93
Neshamah
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93,
I would add, just for arguments sake, that I did not call Da'ath a Sehirah to itsel, but a part of Binah(Understandin). This is how I understand it anyhow. Of course, evry Sephirah is of the Sephiroth above it. Thanks for the links, Jim.
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To reiterate what I have said elsewhere, Daath is an old name (pre-Zohar) for the supernal triad. It was used as shorthand for Kether, Chokmah and Binah. Before the phrase "Tree of Life" was used, the flow from the en soph (again shorthand, for ain, ain soph, ain soph aur) was likened to a river, splitting after emerging as a mountain stream and filling chokmah and binah before both overflowed, tumbling down the abyss. This abyss is not empty, it has these twin forces flowing. I think this is what Grant experienced as the twin pillars of Daath.
I believe it was the Lurianic Cabalists who, discovering unexplained references to Daath in documents that were already 400 years+ old at the time, thought it referred to a hidden 11th sphere. -
@sethur said
"...the flow from the en soph ... was likened to a river, splitting after emerging as a mountain stream and filling chokmah and binah before both overflowed, tumbling down the abyss. This abyss is not empty..."
In support of the notion that the Abyss is not empty, the word has it's origins in the Greek word abyssos, meaning "bottomless". The root of the word is byssos, meaning "the bottom of the sea". The word *abyssal *has been used since 1691 CE to refer to the zone of ocean water below 300 fathoms or 1800 feet.
Whenever I think of the Abyss, I think of a bottomless depth of water.
Dan
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Sophia (remember, wisdom, aka Chokmah) was associated by some early Christians as the Holy Spirit, and if you go back to Genesis 1:2, the Holy Spirit was hovering over the watery deep.
In the Sophia myths, her yearning (to understand and unite with the unknowable primal father, or to create, or to have gnosis of the universe) leads to her falling into the abyss, and simultaneously giving rise to the physical matter of the universe and imbuing it with a divine spark. Sophia herself is often seen by Gnostics as being the most anthropomorphic of the Aeons (Gods).
Interestingly, there is a distinction made in both Genesis, and the Gnostic myths, between the void/abyss/watery deep, and the surface. Sophia hovers and plays along the surface. Several people in the thread have mentioned the concept of "reflection", and the surface of still water is the original mirror. She pursues the reflected illusion, and disturbs the surface with her hovering/swimming, at once shattering illusion and passing through the other side into the abyss (Alice in Wonderland anyone?). In the abyss (as pointed out, meaning bottomless, or no-ground, or nothing solid, physical), which is a sort of chaotic pre-matter from which she gives birth to the physical world.
Also, some traditions associate Sophia with the archetypal mother, which seems a bit more Binah/Babalon to most of us, naturally. I wonder at the idea of Babalon being the womb/gate of life hints at an association with the surface of the abyss.
In other older gnostic traditions she is associated with Astraea, the star maiden, a female Prometheus-like character. Interesting that the Star is the tarot key associated with the path from Chokmah through the abyss....
Sorry, kind of went off-tangent a bit... but was just trying to add more fodder to the discussion.