Jungian Archetypes & the TOL
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@Arsihsis said
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@Arsihsis said
"I'll give this some thought ...Ayin & Tav are great examples."OTOH, the 'squaring of the circle' aspect of Atu XXI lends itself to the persuasion that the child archetype might be more appropriate, on account of its hermaphroditism & representation of completion."
But there's no real Child symbolism to Tav.
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also Quoph for the Shadow.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Arsihsis said
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@Arsihsis said
"I'll give this some thought ...Ayin & Tav are great examples."OTOH, the 'squaring of the circle' aspect of Atu XXI lends itself to the persuasion that the child archetype might be more appropriate, on account of its hermaphroditism & representation of completion."
But there's no real Child symbolism to Tav."
But the idea of completion & the 'quadrature of the circle' are inherent in both Tav & the Child.
729
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@Arsihsis said
"But the idea of completion & the 'quadrature of the circle' are inherent in both Tav & the Child."
Yes. But that doesn't make them cognate symbols. - It makes them two different roads to a similar idea.
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"For shadow, I think you're shooting too high, though you're heading for the right frequency. There is a Saturn idea here, but not Binah. For example, the shadow is solidly confronted (and likely more than once) before one hits Tiphareth. There are elements of it in A'ayin, and definitely Tav (in a big way), and of course the intersection and relationship of Tav and Yesod. But anything at Tiphereth or higher would be serious misdirection."
I would say Yesod or Qoph, as being aspects being related to the moon=reflection=shadow.
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@JPF said
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"For shadow, I think you're shooting too high, though you're heading for the right frequency. There is a Saturn idea here, but not Binah. For example, the shadow is solidly confronted (and likely more than once) before one hits Tiphareth. There are elements of it in A'ayin, and definitely Tav (in a big way), and of course the intersection and relationship of Tav and Yesod. But anything at Tiphereth or higher would be serious misdirection."I would say Yesod or Qoph, as being aspects being related to the moon=reflection=shadow."
Qoph or Yesod as the Shadow is interesting in that, according to Jung, the Shadow directly veils the Anima. As has been demonstrated in another thread, the Anima can (especially in the case of the overdeveloped eros) bear a striking resemblance to Netzach. Compare this excerpt from Jung's The Archetypes & the Collective Unconscious (especially par. 179) with what we know of Netzach:
P.S. When reading the excerpt I cannot help but consider this as an apt description of the Scarlet Woman playing the role of 'therapist' for the modern Catholic man.
729
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but what about Animus than?
as Jim said, you can't univocaly connect Jung's concepts to TOL. but some 'parts' of the Tree are, of course, more 'in tune' with some of them than others (archetypes of Mother and Father with female and male Supernal, respectively - for example).
and re Shadow... thinking more about it I can't avoid the conclusion that wherever there is light, shadow can occur (that is - in all parts/Paths of the Tree and in all Four Worlds where duality exists, or better - which can exist through duality...)
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@Arsihsis said
"Qoph or Yesod as the Shadow is interesting in that, according to Jung, the Shadow directly veils the Anima. As has been demonstrated in another thread, the Anima can (especially in the case of the overdeveloped eros) bear a striking resemblance to Netzach. Compare this excerpt from Jung's The Archetypes & the Collective Unconscious (especially par. 179) with what we know of Netzach:"
I tend to approach psychology from an astrological perspective. Sol seems to suit the Anima, as the essence or Anima-tion of the individual. This leaves us with Luna for the "Shadow" aspect, as she is the companion of Sol, and reflects his light. See how she is capable of both Illusion and Madness (Qoph) and Illumination (Gimel). I am sure you can fill in the rest for yourself.
"as Jim said, you can't univocaly connect Jung's concepts to TOL. but some 'parts' of the Tree are, of course, more 'in tune' with some of them than others (archetypes of Mother and Father with female and male Supernal, respectively - for example).
and re Shadow... thinking more about it I can't avoid the conclusion that wherever there is light, shadow can occur (that is - in all parts/Paths of the Tree and in all Four Worlds where duality exists, or better - which can exist through duality...)"
Obviously we'll never reach an unequivocal co-relation between the systems, but there will be correspondences between any archetypes, and it is our task to resolve all things to Unity under the Minutum Mundum. After a certain amount of practice, harmonies can be found without too much trouble. Most people don't understand the Tree of Life. It is by no means concrete, or something to be used dogmatically. It is a framework that, with practice, allows one to co-ordinate every aspect of life with every other. It is thus that we understand the fundamental Unity of Life. And, of course, we will each approach this a different way. Experience will teach.
So let's not discourage each other in our quest for harmony, shall we?
As regards the Red Book, which a friend of mine asked me to analyze from the standpoint of astrology/Qabalah, it would seem that a great deal of his illustrations involve 4's and 8's. A Qabalistic analysis gives the forces involved, and one is inclined to consider Philemon a Hermes-like character. (8=Hod, 4=Chesed, Mercury is the Herald of Jupiter, ta da!)
But these are only cursory conclusions. There is a great deal of work yet to be done in uniting the fields of psychology and Qabalah.
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"So let's not discourage each other in our quest for harmony, shall we?
"never ment that.
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Resurrecting this, as I've been reading more, and understanding Jung a little more...
I've been reading about the Persona (the outwardly projected ideal-ego image) and the Shadow. In the Jungian individuation process, a person confronts the shadow first, and then the anima or animus, before reaching the Self.
Jim, you mention the Shadow as having some correspondence to both the path of Tav and the path of A'ayin. I'm assuming Tav, because it seems that confronting the Shadow in the astral is one of the first things a new astral traveler must do. And I'm assuming A'ayin as corresponding to the role of the Shadow as the 'devil within' that must be redeemed and integrated.
I'm also seeing some small correspondences in Yesod, Netsach, and Hod. The illusory image of Yesod, and the tendency toward glamour (as in, showy appearance lacking substance) reminds me of some of the negative potential of the Persona. The potential in Netsach to project and be impulsive and indulgent to the whims of the Shadow. The Shadow as the source of the libido energy reminiscent of Yesod. And the rigid, legalistic tendencies of Hod remind me of the possibility of becoming a rigid perfectionist, when one over-identifies with the Persona.
Further, the Persona and the Shadow seem to be represented in pop culture as the devil and the angel on a person's shoulders. From what I've read, both need to be listened to and have their needs met. But neither should get the upper hand, and neither should be regarded as superior. (Deliver me from evil and from good). To do this, we need to pursue communication with the often maligned 'inner devil'. I've also read that preserving this tension between the two, mediating with a healthy ego, is the path to eventually seeing them as complementary, not opposing, forces, and eventually transcending them.
Is this the correct way to approach it? I know for me, with my repressed childhood, I kept my Shadow bottled up, and over-identified with the Persona. As a young adult, I swung too far the other way, and over-identified with the Shadow. Now I'm trying to move back to the 'middle' again, in a way.
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Here follows a link to Gerald Schueler's (Ph.D.) excellent introductory overview of the correlations between the symbolism of Tarot & the archetypes of the collective unconscious:
www.schuelers.com/chaos/chaos7.htm
729
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I like to say Jung was the Einstein of the inner universe while Crowley was the mad holy prophet that dared us to attempt the connection between the inner and the outer.
Re: your TOL mapping attempt. It seems to me that a person's shadow on the tree would be individual, based on what aspects of their own true nature are repressed. Does that make sense?
Please allow me a little liberty with my terms as I try to express my concept to you. My terminology isn't really fully formed about this.
Masculine and feminine alternate depending on whether a sephira is below or above the influence of another, so anima, animus, and shadow can have their play in each of the sephiroth. It is anima (pos and neg) to that which is above and animus (pos and neg) to that which is below. The "gold" of each sephira being the ...desired potential of the stabilized experience of the sephiroth while the shadow exists as the ... feared potential of the unstabilized functioning of it (qlippoth?).
Other than that broad stroke, I usually map the shadow to Saturn, wherever he/she appears.
Thoughts?
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Resurrecting this thread again.
Jung talks of the anima and animus as having several stages of development.
The anima progressions goes: Eve, Helen of Troy, Mother Mary, Sophia. This represents a progression from base phsyical womanhood - motherhood and sexuality, to increasing transcendence of the limitations. Helen of Troy as someone with beauty and brains, Sophia as transcending the limitation of good and evil.
The animus goes from simple physical ability to mental dominance, to the highest levels of communication. Say, James Bond, to Hemingway, to MLK, to Magus.
When seen this way, the correspondence is clearer to me. Different levels of Anima are found in netsach, gevurah, and binah. Different stages of Animus are in Hod, Chesed, and Chokmah.
Also, the conscious and the unconscious are on the right and left side of the tree. Which side depends on the individual and their stage of development.
The reason that anima and animus are not entirely on one side of the tree (switching from Hod to Chesed, and Netsach to Gevurah) is about Tiphareth. This stage is about the union of opposites.
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Alrah, 93,
Fascinating post.
"We are all born with the innate ability to recognise faces, so this Skull archetype is more than likely 'hardwired' ('I am' the alpha and the omega) and pertains to Da'ath.
Kali Ma (mapped to Binah) with her necklace of skulls is a good image to meditate on in this respect.
"The skull is an arresting image, yes, but how does it open us to the whole of the womb/yoni nature of Binah? It's one side of the sephirah's nature, and is used that way in meditation. But it's not the entire underpinning.
I seem to recall children recognize faces primarily through the presence of eyes, followed by the mouth and nose, not through eye-sockets and other cavities. That's why stuffed toys have such huge eyes. The empty face of a skull would be a kind of afterimage, but not necessarily foundational to Binah.
93 93/93,
Edward
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'rased
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@Alrah said
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I have a quibble.Eve, Helen of Troy, Mother Mary, Sophia, James Bond, Hemingway - they all have human faces. Behind each face is the archetype of the Skull as a master archetype. We are all born with the innate ability to recognise faces, so this Skull archetype is more than likely 'hardwired' ('I am' the alpha and the omega) and pertains to Da'ath.
Kali Ma (mapped to Binah) with her necklace of skulls is a good image to meditate on in this respect.
It's all well and good to map archetypes on the tree while you're unifying the psyche, but in the second part of the work all is offered up and appears to dissapear in the undifferentitaed understanding of Binah - including the various archetypes of the Self with the result that the supernal 'above' is more fully manifested 'below' without all the clutter.
"Agreed on your quibble.
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Alrah, 93,
Interesting link. I find the Lantern idea is fascinating, especially as I'm trying to learn a language with a brain that isn't an infant's. I'm still pushing the "Binah is the womb, not the skull" button, though. Womb and yoni symbolism are the classic images for gaining access to Binah. The skull image is in there, granted, but the two are differentiated.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Alrah, 93,
Your skull is the valid symbol of AMA, the dark sterile Mother of Binah. The other face of Binah is AIMA, the bright fertile Mother, very much as expressed in the imagery of the Empress, the path linking Binah to Chokmah.
Of the two of us, I think you're the delphinic necrophile. Unite by thine art, so that all disappear.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward said
"Your skull is the valid symbol of AMA, the dark sterile Mother of Binah. The other face of Binah is AIMA, the bright fertile Mother, very much as expressed in the imagery of the Empress, the path linking Binah to Chokmah."
@Alrah said
"I brought up the image of Kali Ma mapped to Binah with the skulls around her neck in respect of all the rest of the Sephirah being embodied in her. Her head is of the supernals and is never seen except by division below the abyss. She wear's the skulls of Da'ath at her neck."
Hmmm...
So the skull would translate as one's emotional reaction to the spectre of death, viewed from below the abyss?
The supernals always confuse me. They seem to me to be simply ultimate attitudes that are possible to be taken by the human mind on the mishmash of creation and limitation. The strange bit of irony is that in Chockma, as Magus (<sigh> No, I'm not claiming to be one), even one's chaos is the result of current conditions (below the abyss) drawing down a charge of lightening. It is pure chaos in its nature, even as it follows the rules and polarizations of the previously spoken "wisdom," which has previously been given form in Binah.
Otherwise, why would a Magus speak at all?
