Golden Dawn Initiaiton
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Regrettably, I'm not able to recommend anyone affiliate with David G.
I usually do him the courtesy of not saying anything, but this question was asked right here in my own yard, so I'd feel wrong not speaking up.
I'll continue to do him the courtesy of not gong into any details, to take the recommendation or leave it as you see fit.
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I've heard some other things about David G..
and Jim, for you to say that, it makes ripples in effect..
I hate to ask why you do not recommend Griffin Golden Dawn.. But it strikes my curiosity..
Some say he is a dangerous man..
some say he is a scam..
but no one elaborates why
I'm dying to know why.. i mean I've also heard great things, which stirkes my curiosity.. people say the same thing about the society ordo templi orientis
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I checked the site you linked to...
I can only speak for myself but I find it very strange when these groups are trying to "sell" you on anything about themselves. The fact that site says they guarantee attainment, or something like that, seems as if they're selling you a product (i.e. their group membership). I am also turned off by these leaders rattling off lists of "how many groups I'm an initiate of." I have not found any "We are the REAL Golden Dawn TM" organization I've been impressed with at all. They seem screwy to me.
What I end up asking myself is: do they realize they are conning people? If they do, they are really low to prey on spiritual aspiration. If they don't, they must be really delusional. IMHO
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93
I 90% agree, i thought the exact same thing and it costed almost 200 to join. so I tried it with 100% moneyback guarantee. and they are not that bad.. I mean depending on where you live they will give initiation all the way to ipissimuss
but i dont know, Thats all I really know.. and they did give me my money back..
GD is just not for me.. thats why you have the temple of thelema
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@jg93 said
"Does anyone have info on these folks?
There seems to be only a single OTO body within 100 miles of me (Wash, DC), so I'm desperately searching for a deep, meaningful (re)initiation onto 'the path.' I'm open to suggestions, thanks for the help.
Jeff"
I can help out with info on EOGD (essoteric order of the Golden Dawn formerly known as HOMSI - Hermetic Order of the Morning Star.)
I was once a member in their mother temple in Southern California. I went up through the grades to Theoricus and left at that point. I'll try to keep my post on point and practical... less emotional as it were.
To start with, if you're a Thelemite or interested in Thelema... you'd prob want to look elsewhere, then EOGD. Some Golden Dawn orders are open to you practicing Thelema on your own outside their system - EOGD is NOT one of these orders. I was clearly told by various "adepts" at EOGD not to own any work of Crowley's (unless co-published by Mathers) and I've seen said Adepts also instruct people to destroy or burn their Thoth Decks they owned.
I think a lot of the hostility towards Thelema came from a key Adept there who evidently had a bad experience with a Thelemic order in his youth... What he told me scared me off Thelema for quite some time... but in looking at it rationally I came to find out, his views on Thelema were very colored and mostly wrong. He believed "Do what Thou Wilt" was a license to do whatever you want, and clearly that idea should have been made more clear in reading Crowley's opinion on the matter.
EOGD does perform astral initations. When I served as an officer there, it worked like this: a physical initation is performed, and during that time, they believe the astral image of the candidate not present is also with the ones that are physically present. It seemed logical at the time, but in the end, I later felt it was a good way to get membership up and that was about all.
If you check their own forum on Yahoo Groups (it's linked off their main website) - there's a lot of people posting that they paid their dues/membership fee's and maybe 3-6 months go by without any acknowledgement, nor are any materials sent to them. This was the case when I was a member many years ago, and perisists to this very day.
Lastly, just look up the Grand Imperator's name (He openly discloses his real name, so I'm not giving up any secret info here) Robert Zink. He has a personal website where he sells many CD's and programs. If you check it out that might be the best way to determine if that order is for you or not. Actually - that website appears to be down...
To be fair, when I did confront Robert Zink about the attitude against Thelema in EOGD - he claimed at that time he "had no problems with Thelemites" yet when I was a member, it was EOGD Policy that "No Thelemite could be a member of the EOGD" for fear of polluting the current. perhaps polluting is a strong word, but given the angst I saw against Thelemites there, I think it's a fitting description of how I saw their feelings.
EOGD also gets involved in a lot of 'turf wars' with David Griffin and vice versa.
They do have some great magicians in their order. I've met some amazing people thre, despite the problems. This could perhaps be said of anything. A great magician might show up in the oddest of places.
Other Orders:
The order I dont think was mentioned yet, is the Golden Dawn order run by Pat Zalewiski. Pat is a published author, so you can typically find his books in a variety of bookstores, to get an idea for their take on things. While I disagree with Pat in various things, I think (granted I've not been a member, but friends of mine in his order who left others - like Zink's) say that Pat's order is pretty level headed.another order coming up is R.O.G.D. - I recently contacted them... rogd.org... they openly respect Aliester Crowley (and have Magick Book 4 listed in their recomended reading list). Their website rogd.org doesn't have a lot of info but they do reply to emails in a timely fashion... they also let you taste their teachings without spending any money. They make use of the magickal journal and daily adorations/salutations.... From what I gather, I think they are loosely affiliated with Pat Zalewiski - but I can't be certain. I do like their recomended reading list. They have some great authors in there.
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I would recommend the SRC+SSA: Sodalitas Rosae Crucis & Solis Alati:
www.rosae-crucis.neGreat Initiatory Order, with a foundation in the system of the Golden Dawn, but of course updated.
*The name, Sodalitas RosaeXCrucis & Solis Alati, is actually the name of two Orders; the first, Sodalitas RosaeXCrucis (S.R.C.), translates into “The Secret Society of the Rosy Cross”, and was chosen to represent the Rosicrucian flavour of the magical and mystical processes that lead the candidate to a full contact with his/her Holy Guardian Angel. The second, Sodalitas Solis Alati (S.S.A.), which translates into “The Secret Society of the Winged Sun”, was chosen as to represent the alchemical work that the adept is then ready for. Within these two Orders, the magical work and initiations of the Golden Dawn and Rosae Rubeae et Aurea Crucis, the mystical work and initiations of Gnosticism and Christian Theurgy and the alchemical work of the Royal Path integrates into a coherent system of personal development, where every step follows the next in a clear and consistent way.
*I am not interested in the Golden Dawn but of all groups working with that system this is definately the one I hold in highest regard.
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Keep in mind that the SRC+SSA is a schism of Griffin's G.D. and it operates, a bit or less, the same ritualistic way.
If I was to affiliate myself with the G.D., I would be extremely careful about which lineage I would choose. Definitely that wouldn’t be Griffin’s and also not Cicero’s. In Cicero’s, although I do respect him and his initiatory lineage, I know that if you are not a declared Christian, and especially if you are a Thelemite, you are never going to get past that portal grade. Pretty awkward, since Regardie was also a member of the AA and the OTO, and Chic was also in the OTO.
There is the Open Source of the G.D., which is Thelemic. Unfortunately, I don’t know much about these guys, but at a glance they seem decent.
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I don't see that anyone yet has mentioned that Temple of Thelema works on the G.D. pattern.
If one were looking for a pre-Thelemic version, I'd most strongly recommend F.L.O. (Fraternitas L.V.X. Occulta).
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Regardie was a Probationer of the A.'.A.'., not a member. One becomes a member on passing to Neophyte. The Probationer period is one of assessment. Regardie being in the OTO I would like to see some evidence of. My understanding is that he was not a member but because of his position as Crowley's secretary he was privy to certain information. He was not active in Thelema following his seperation with Crowley and into the 70s when he started to become a bit of an occult celebrity when his books were revived by Lewellyn and he started editing Crowley books for them. Some circles say he had little to do with Magic following his seperation from the Stella Matutina but I don't know much about that personally and won't comment. I have a lot of respect for Regardie personally but I doubt the veracity of him being an OTO member, he was an OTO member about as much as Motta was an OTO member.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I don't see that anyone yet has mentioned that Temple of Thelema works on the G.D. pattern.
If one were looking for a pre-Thelemic version, I'd most strongly recommend F.L.O. (Fraternitas L.V.X. Occulta)."
I will second this recommendation. Excellent group.
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The first cerimonial admission of the Collegium ad Lux et Nox is also based on the Golden Dawn Neophyte Initiation Ritual. In the last equinox this has been done in Curitiba - PR, Brazil:
collegium.org.br/eventos/admissao-em-curitiba-2010
Moreover, our Chapters execute regularly the Neophyte Ritual, opening and closing their works.
And yes, this is far, far away from you...rs
93
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Is there a difference in syllabus between the A.'.A.'., the Golden Dawn (traditionally), and the Temple of Thelema? Other than the use of Crowley's Libers, of course.
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Is David G. the fellow from the Paris Centennial Celebration video on YouTube?
I had been watching the videos recently...
Their ritual performance was impressive (form wise).
What I did not like is how most of the video was him and a few others trying to say just how legit they are -
Yes.
And yes, most of the videos one can see are polished. The word that comes to mind for me is 'glamour' (in the original, magickal sense)
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Most polished indeed. Given the amount of spiffy shiny things they display in their videos, I demand to know if the A.'.A.'. can promise ceremonies with as many spiffy shiny things. Demand, I say!
On a less sarcastic note, I noticed in one of their videos that they claim to have moved the practical training to the First Order, dispensing with the old ZAM, ThAM, etc. problems. Sounds like progress (although their website is still a bit too shrill in its assertion of their lineage for me).