A.A. gradework vs. natural attainment
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*"I began to see that one might become a Master of the Temple without necessarily knowing any technical Magick or mysticism at all. It is merely a matter of convenience to be able to represent any expression as x + y = 0. The equation may be solved without words. Many people may go through the ordeals and attain the degrees of the A.'. A.'. without ever hearing that such an Order exists. The universe is, in fact, busy with nothing else, for the relation of the Order to it is that of the man of science to his subject. He writes CaCl2 + H2SO4 = CaSO4 + 2HCL for his own convenience and that of others, but the operation was always in progress independently." *
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The above quote from Confessions was cited to me by someone who claims to have attained 8=3 by himself. His understanding of the ordeals and attainment of the degrees of the A.A. is basically all subjective processes (fantasizing, daydreaming, imagination and all pixies, angels and preternatural entities derived therefrom) are gradually stripped away so that one becomes a Master who is fully grounded in direct observation of reality. He does not believe in the HGA as a separate individual nor in the reality of magick or the astral plane. To an outside observer he would come across as a hardcore materialist/rationalist.My question - if Crowley admitted the above, what's to prevent anyone from deluding themselves into thinking they are any grade they think? What are the concrete signs by which one ascertains attainment?
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@he atlas itch said
"what's to prevent anyone from deluding themselves into thinking they are any grade they think?"
Absolutely nothing.Journal entries give good evidence at "what place" a person is in, in terms of development. The old "takes one to know one" principle...
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@he atlas itch said
"My question - if Crowley admitted the above, what's to prevent anyone from deluding themselves into thinking they are any grade they think?"
Excellent question. There are several possible ways to approach an answer and, as I think through them, I keep coming back to the question, "and to what end, or for what purpose, would one do this?"
In other words, if one is outside of the Order, then why is one using Order labels (and, for that matter, making claims)? And if one is within the Order, then it is the discipline of the Order, and the commitment of the individual to follow the elected Path, that answers your question.
"What are the concrete signs by which one ascertains attainment?"
The concrete signs are successful completion of the specific tasks of the A.'.A.'. curriculum - at least, the core ones. This isn't just for the sake of the system - they show a tracing through a series of specific experiences and states of being.
For example, there are some key attainments that look very much like earlier states. For example, very clear freedom, on external inspection, looks a lot like the naivite of the unaccomplished. That is, innocence recovered looks quite a lot like original innocence. And, again from external inspection or hearing someone's report, the deep attainment of Yesod is hard to distinguish quickly from that of Tiphereth.
In a similar way, at age 21 (during Saturn's square to its natal place), when I would hear people talk about the experiences of their Saturn Returns and the process of approaching 30, I could objectively see that every smallest detail of what they were saying described me to. From their words I couldn't tell the difference. But boy, when I hit 29 I sure could! I had to actually be there to get it.
That's a directly applicable example. We develop in layers, and the same point in successive layers can seem a lot like each other. The only way I knew, as a 2=9, that I hadn't attained the K&C of the HGA was that I hadn't passed through the three intervening grades - some of the experiences and states were so much seeming to be what every deep description has always seemed to be saying. But (as with turning 29), when I hit 5=6 Within, there was just no fucking way to mistake what happened there from anything that had ever happened before in the whole scope of my existence. (Two weeks from the end of that 5=6 operation, I thought I'd gotten the point and was just finishing as an act of discipline. Two days before the end, I couldn't have even fantasized or guessed at the outcome. But after the final morning... well, it was finally clear.)
This is why the A.'.A.'. doesn't recognize any individual achievement as conferring a grade unless all of the intervening grades have been completed. It's not just a formality. We all have individual talents and advantages that open particular things to us faster or slower than is true for others. As a 2=9 I was sure that I had the kernal of what constituted 6=5 and, on reaching 6=5, I looked back and agreed - I did have that particular thing years earlier. But that doesn't confer a grade or an honest label, or mark a real attainment. You can't become a Major Adept without being a Minor Adept. I wasn't any sort of an Adept at 2=9, and that made all the difference in the world.
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Thanks for that explanation.
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Fasinating stuff.
I appreciate this conversation very much. I have found myself asking the question "to what end, what purpose, what is my motivation for this?" many many times in my life. I do believe that is why I have never pledged to any group, ever. I dont even say the pledge of alligence. I had never been able to answer that question satisfactorly.
I have been musing over somethings in my life, some consistent behaviors I seem to display and I am very curious about them. In the past few years I have been dreaming frequently about being a senior in highschool, about to graduate. I dream of the last few weeks of school the dances, games and ceremonies (rites of passage) approaching, but never realizing them. In my real life, my senior year we pretty rough, yet I got my credits to graduate. I did not participate in graduation and was asked to leave the ball. (I was a bad bad girl;). I graduated college, yet again did not participate in graduation. I have schooled myself for decades with no affiliation to any organization or course of study, even in my holistic distance learning program I found a way to achieve the degree with out the ceremony.
I know that I do this out of my rebellion against institutions in general. I am an Aquarius and I dont like the status quo often when it comes to who is controling the world. I am not ususally able to sit still and do or say nothing against what I feel is wrong, so I rebel.
So I didnt honor my hard won achievements and now my subconscious is letting me no that it feels like it missed the party. I guess that is why I am rethinking about affiliations, commitments and social-isms and concidering participating in real life group activities. This Sat. as a matter of fact my sis and I are going to be up in Buffalo at the Phoenix lodge of the O.T.O. for a tarot lecture:). -
Mistaking the 1=10 experience is actually a pretty common mistake amongst those who do not understand there is a definite difference. This is part of the reason we have so many "Adepts" running around Thelema who don't seem very Adept. In the old aeon GD sense, sure, yer a frakking Adept but you haven't achieved 5=6 in the A.'.A.'. so stop acting like it.
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@frateruranus said
"Mistaking the 1=10 experience is actually a pretty common mistake amongst those who do not understand there is a definite difference. This is part of the reason we have so many "Adepts" running around Thelema who don't seem very Adept. In the old aeon GD sense, sure, yer a frakking Adept but you haven't achieved 5=6 in the A.'.A.'. so stop acting like it.
"Agreed
