LOVE under will????
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I love those who oppress me. This love has some intensity, as they are luring, and I do not have will over it. Consider someone loving to put his hand on a hot stove.
If I may, this law could well be contemplated upon what I have talked about, psychic vampirism. It has been called the most vicious thing there is. Well it is vicious. A psychic vampire implements what may be called honey death. You do feel good with him (/her), although he is destroying you, energetically, and psychologically. And often, the more he is destroying you, the better you feel. And, what is he doing exactly, he is exactly breaking this law, love UNDER will, from you, and you won't see it. By the way, how often is it with men undermining the will of women. I think this is exactly why it may be hard for many to understand this law, love under will, as we are so accustomed to the way that love is to be abused. This may perhaps be more with women, but of course it is also cultural.
But about psychic vampirism: why won't one acknowledge the situation? Because of three illusory emotions: safety, control and guilt. Guilt may be the more powerful of the three. A vampire puts one or all of these to you. You'll feel guilty of what he's doing to you. That's of course universal of abuse, be it incest, war, beating, parental alcoholism or such so on. And yes, you'll feel safe and in control, although the situation is opposite. But what is happening behind the illusion, is that you're loving or liking someone without the control of your own will. This is the most tragic thing as far as I can see.
More often do you see someone with too much love than with too much will, this may also be put into consideration.
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@Vlad said
"I love those who oppress me. This love has some intensity, as they are luring, and I do not have will over it. Consider someone loving to put his hand on a hot stove. "
There is something called "obsession" (in the psychological sense) that many mistake for love. This is love over one's will, wouldn't you say?
I have a love for good and fine wines. If I did not have will over this, I would probably end up on skid row drinking Thunderbird. (lol)
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"The sun. Sun compels me to paint. I can't waste my time talking to you"
Vincent Van Gogh (played by Martin Scorsese) in Akira Kurosawa's Dreams
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@Takamba said
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@Vlad said
"I love those who oppress me. This love has some intensity, as they are luring, and I do not have will over it. Consider someone loving to put his hand on a hot stove. "There is something called "obsession" (in the psychological sense) that many mistake for love. This is love over one's will, wouldn't you say?"
Yes. And then there is a thing called possession also. And there one may find the most luring emotion of love. -
Looking at the more simple meaning of the phrase, Franz Bardon said something to the effect of love under will in "Initiation into the Hermetics". He said something like "love is love, but only under a strong will". It was somewhere in his chapters warning people not to fall prey to astral entities or not to start obsessing over spirits one invokes.
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Didn't Crowley explain this in LAW IS FOR ALL as Love being under the direction of conscious will? Or am I recalling incorrectly?
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@DavidH said
"Didn't Crowley explain this in LAW IS FOR ALL as Love being under the direction of conscious will? Or am I recalling incorrectly?"
I am in agreement with you on that one. I could look it up (a wonderfully full index it has), but I'll just simply agree because i already agree. It's just that sometimes I think some people perceive the "under" like they would perceive a hierarchy of greater than vs lesser than, and of course - sometimes the rebellious set - that can stick in the craw of some. So I'm no longer surprised when this topic comes up.
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Love is the law, love under will.
This verse often brings to my mind an image of the Supernal Triad of the Tree of Life. If we look at the Tree of Life we can see the top three spheres forming a triangle, Atu 3 (symbolizing Divine Love) forms the base under the apex of Kether (The Primal Will)...love under will.
Also, one of the Affirmations in "The Pattern on the Trestleboard" tells us;
"Living from that Will, supported by its unfailing Wisdom and Understanding, mine is the Victorious Life."
Supported implies something being "under" in order to provide Support. It tells us we are supported by unfailing Wisdom and Understanding. Once again we have here Key 3, The Empress (Divine Love) as it is the connecting Pathway between Chokmah and Binah, Wisdom and Understanding. Once again, "love under will" which if followed as a Pattern for Life makes us Victorious.
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Under Will does not mean "in action".
It means under as in I serve under the master.
Love is universal, limitless and continuous, it is the tendency to Nuit.
Will is limiting, restricting, focusing, it is the power attributed to Hadit.This Love is the law, = the Law is to expand oneself and grow, to unite with the world in order to experience.
Love under WILL = The expansion is limited to your discrete nature, you unite with what is proper to you, at a given time and place. Love must be an expression of who you are as a discrete entity, the manifestation of your true name. Thus under the Rule or WILL. -
Love as "an expression of who you are as a discrete entity, the manifestation of your true name" sounds the same as Love "in action." I think that if a discrete entity carries out "love in action", then it is necessarily an expression of the nature of that discrete entity, don't you agree?
Loving "under the power of will" to me is the same as Loving "under service of the Master".
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An entity that is not in touch with it's own nature, may attempt to act in a ways disjointed to that nature, Thus a particular act of love, may not be under WILL. For example some on inflicted with Pica, very strongly craves and will eat non-edible things. They unite in Love with say the act of eating broken glass or drinking kerosene, however, this is not according to their WILL. The problem is usually a dietary deficiency, if this person was to eat something high in Iron like spinach or take a vitamin tablet, the cravings would stop. That would be a successful application of Magick, that is using the right operation, on the right object, in the right way, etc. The failure to apply scientific method, and instead to allow ones visceral impulses and cravings to guide one into eating poison, an action which not only is dangerous and potentially fatal it is also not an effective means to fulfill the cause of the cravings, that is it is not an act of WILL. Rather it is an act without using WILL, it is in defiance of WILL. It is applying the right operation to the wrong object, thus it is a failed act of magick.
Magick is only magick when it causes changes in accordance with WILL, when one does what one feels is right and the result is at odds with the WILL, then it is not magick and thus not an act of Love under WILL.
People do this all the time, people keep making the same mistakes, fails to understand the situation, set them selves up for cycles of failed relationships, all kinds of acts which may be acts of LOVE, but they are not under WILL, because they light of reason has not even illuminated the dark corners of the mind so bring those issues into awareness, let alone the force of WILL used to constrain and alter those behaviors to a single positive ends.
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Has anyone considered that Love under Will might be like Earth under Foot?
"I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union"
So the Will is always towards union, that is, love?
That's how I interpret it (and have for 30 years now) but I always remember the preamble, that "my prophet is a fool with his one, one, one, I am none, or two..........
In other words Union is annihilation, not unity. Still working on that one 30 years later
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The Jews say that when their ancestors only accepted the Torah because God held a mountain over their head. Hence under the old Aeon religions love and law were held over the people by an angry God, who imposed his own will upon them.
In the New Aeon, love is the firm ground below our feet, or the subconscious foundation for the conscious individual Will. It is not a mountain over our heads, nor an overwhelming tidal wave that washes away our own Will, but a foundation.
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The simplest way I can offer on how I look at it, anything that isn't directly under the magician's will is potentially an obsession. Love is the law. Love equals the same as Thelema. But it is Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, not Do what thou love shall be the whole of the Law (tho one may be hard pressed to find the difference).
Love is the law, love under will - not because love or Love is inferior (such human definitions).
Love is the law, love under will - not because of physical locations (such earthly definitions).
Love is the law, love under will - not because Will must be the master of Love... but because the reverse should never be allowed (as it is against the very oath of the neophyte of the G.'.D.'. Order to allow any entity to subordinate the will).
Love is the law, love under will because, as the great prophet Brian Ferry says - Love is a drug.
because because because... because of the wonderful things it does!
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Love under will .... love under sombody elses will... CA did experiment with bdsm Master/slaves after all winks
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@pixie_pseuicide said
"Love under will .... love under sombody elses will... CA did experiment with bdsm Master/slaves after all winks"
Have you read this?
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thats a lot of readin lol grins i've scanned it and the poetry too... (to be honest i'm not sure if my comment was taken for or against so bare with me)
To me, these poems are tribute to the diety archetypes thats arise in sex, much like the "dirty talk" in our own ritualistic sex rites... (i wont read these in thier entirety as it would hinder my ability to "talk" in these rites)
Between us we have invoked the dark mother, the snake, the very apple itself... the king the queen the maiden etc...
i stress here that i dont have full understanding of Thelema inthe ways the scholars do, and i doubt i will ever read it that way...what i know of crowely is to not take him at his word, he is a wordsmith and a shocker, lol, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Master and i have been rl slave and master for 6 andhalf years (with us both researching magick since children) and its only with complete surrender of my control (not to be confused with the abuse of that) that we have found the magickal link.
To submit fully to MAN... allows yourself to submit fully to GOD be it the divinity inside you or you and your lover combined...
love under will i only heard of last night and instantly it clicked for me...love under SOMEONE ELSES will... in this i have found the door to my own divinity...
I dont think there is a definate take on most of crowelys teachings...his own shtick was finding your OWN meaning and your OWN doors but was happy to provide his path and thoughts.
meaning isnt IN the words...its between them.
the fact that this thread has a number of different opinions proves this i feel (for me smiles )
for instance...do what thou wilt could be taken as do as you want, or it could be taken as do you will (Desire and drive to attain what you have) or it could be taken do what YOU will (eg my master) though i personally dont see a strong enough link there at this time.
All thoughts come from the collective unconscious, and in this there is no wrong thoughts, or mistakes, only longer or shorted durations of time in each vein learnt...
Research means to search again, and keep coming back to it...reading a page you have read a million times that only had one way to be taken...with further knowledge under your belt..converts every word into diffrent meanings.
whilst i personally feel the way that i do, i stress i'm not calling anybody else "wrong" i just have faith in my OWN path (that happens to be tied directly to masters even before we become M and s.. ) I dont know if crowley would beleive that in our own ways i have learnt to find and "switch" or "draw upon" my own HGA with something as seemingly minor as "mirror magick" ... our answers only prove that we are right about OUR paths etc...
i hope that i have contributed something worth while smiles maybe a different take, but valid in its own way
the pixie
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My opinion.
Love is THE law.
This meaning that ALL action is done out of love. Either love for yourself, or love of others.
Yet every intentional act is an act of will, therefore love is always mastered by will. Yet if there was no love there would be no action.So, every act is influenced by love, but what we love is determined by what we WILL to love.
one loves by will, one wills by love.
So yes, love is under will. But thats because love is the foundation of the will, that doesnt make inferior.
This is reminding me of talk of the polarity of gender mentioned in the Kybalion. We all know that positive energy couldnt exist without "negative" energy. Male / female Hadit / Nuit all love / all will