Malkuth
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That's exactly the one I was thinking of (the one you mentioned) and the one I meant to post. I just couldn't for the life of me remember where I saw it, so (rather lazily) I posted something in the same vein.
I like that particular one (in which Malkuth in Atziluth is Kether in Briah, Malkuth in Briah is Kether in Yetzirah, etc) because it also reflects the idea that Kether itself can be considered the 'Malkuth' of the Three Negative Veils.
Would you consider this configuration useful in understanding the 'formation' of the Sephiroth via the path of the Flaming Sword? Is it better to imagine that the Sephiroth AND the Worlds were formed successively, or the Sephiroth successively but the Worlds concurrently?
[please feel free to post a link to a correct representation if you find one]
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@PatchworkSerpen said
"That's exactly the one I was thinking of (the one you mentioned), and the one I meant to post. I just couldn't for the life of me remember where I saw it, so (rather lazily) I posted something in the same vein.
I like that particular one (in which Malkuth in Atziluth is Kether in Briah, Malkuth in Briah is Kether in Yetzirah, etc) because it also reflects the idea that Kether itself can be considered the 'Malkuth' of the Three Negative Veils."
Most people, despite familiarity with The Vision & the Voice, don't know that this model is the key to unlocking what's happening in V&V step-by-step. (I published a serialized study of that from 1997-2001 in Black Pearl.)
"Would you consider this configuration useful in understanding the 'formation' of the Sephiroth via the path of the Flaming Sword?"
No. By definition (at least, traditionally through the transmitted mystery schools), the lightning flash is the instantaneous manifestation of all 10 Sephiroth in Atziluth. One of the most important things about the Lightning Flash diagram is that it is portraying the Atziluthic expression of the Tree.
"Is it better to imagine that the Sephiroth AND the Worlds were formed successively, or the Sephiroth successively but the Worlds concurrently?"
That's a trick question because "successively" requires time, and time doesn't exist above Yetzirah (and is much more elastic in Yetzirah than in Assiah, where it's actually more elastic than is usually thought).
As for useful, I think that depends on the story being told. For example, "worlds formed successively" makes sense if we're telling a story from the perspective of our own incarnation. It may, though, not reflect the natural world quite so clearly, especially for the time-related reasons mentioned above. - If i had to choose, you actually left out the most interesting one to me, which is that the sephiroth form instantaneously (as they do in Atziluth and, technically, in Briah since there is no time-separation), and then the Worlds for successively.
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Jim, in the past you've generously posted your articles in lieu of entire issues of ITC and BP; would you please post your serialized study of the V&V from 1997-2001 in Black Pearl? That is a wonderful document with many many interesting mysteries - but it's sure not easy to understand! Such is life. But if you've already done some great work on forging a key...
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@Tinman said
"Jim, in the past you've generously posted your articles in lieu of entire issues of ITC and BP; would you please post your serialized study of the V&V from 1997-2001 in Black Pearl? That is a wonderful document with many many interesting mysteries - but it's sure not easy to understand! Such is life. But if you've already done some great work on forging a key..."
I've said for a while that, though we didn't have a schedule for getting the work done, we eventually would make Black Pearl available for download just like ITC. I can now leak, buried here in this thread, that... we are only a few weeks from that time.
As for the V&V work... gosh, I'm in a "leaky," teasy mood today... I think I'll just say that I'll have a way bigger announcement to make in the near future. The BP serialization should best be considered the initial, preliminary study on the topic...
PS - Thanks for the kind words.
PPS - We should let this float back to the original topic of the thread and, if necessary, start a new thread to pick this up elsewhere.
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@_aLL_seEIng_eYe_ said
"Yet the comparison runs deeper still, geometrically both Earth and Malkuth take the form of a sphere."
Malkuth does not take the form of a sphere, it is drawn as a circle, but that's just a drawing. The use of the word "sphere" is probably because some peoplecannot resist thye similarity between sphere and sephira, although the latter probable means "chapter" (of a book, not an Order).
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@sethur said
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@_aLL_seEIng_eYe_ said
"Yet the comparison runs deeper still, geometrically both Earth and Malkuth take the form of a sphere."Malkuth does not take the form of a sphere, it is drawn as a circle, but that's just a drawing. The use of the word "sphere" is probably because some peoplecannot resist thye similarity between sphere and sephira, although the latter probable means "chapter" (of a book, not an Order)."
Or it's the use of "sphere" as ikn "sphere of influence," or, more generally, "an area of power, control, or influence; domain."
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@sethur said
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@_aLL_seEIng_eYe_ said
"Yet the comparison runs deeper still, geometrically both Earth and Malkuth take the form of a sphere."Malkuth does not take the form of a sphere, it is drawn as a circle, but that's just a drawing. The use of the word "sphere" is probably because some peoplecannot resist thye similarity between sphere and sephira, although the latter probable means "chapter" (of a book, not an Order)."
Or it's the use of "sphere" as ikn "sphere of influence," or, more generally, "an area of power, control, or influence; domain.""
So does this imply Malkuth is a "Force" of somekind to have "an area of power, control, or influence; domain"
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@_aLL_seEIng_eYe_ said
"So does this imply Malkuth is a "Force" of somekind to have "an area of power, control, or influence; domain""
No. Not force. Context. (Note the word "area.") Think context.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Most people, despite familiarity with The Vision & the Voice, don't know that this model is the key to unlocking what's happening in V&V step-by-step. (I published a serialized study of that from 1997-2001 in Black Pearl.)"
Thanks for the hint. Definitely encourages me to have a go myself!
By the way, any idea where the model I first posted comes from? I've been searching for a depiction of the Malkuth=Kether one, but all I've been finding are numerous examples of the Malkuth=Tiphereth Tree. What gives?
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@PatchworkSerpen said
"By the way, any idea where the model I first posted comes from? I've been searching for a depiction of the Malkuth=Kether one, but all I've been finding are numerous examples of the Malkuth=Tiphereth Tree. What gives?
"I think the one you published is Lurianic. For the one you're seeking, I guess nobody has digitized the fold-out from Mathers' Kabbalah Unveiled. (I still prefer to look for these things in physical books, rather than online.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
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I've said for a while that, though we didn't have a schedule for getting the work done, we eventually would make Black Pearl available for download just like ITC. I can now leak, buried here in this thread, that... we are only a few weeks from that time."That's seriously some awesome news...glad to hear.
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I think this looks like malkuth to kether.www.zeropoint.ca/kabb-4trees2.jpg
theres the link, I dont know how to paste pics on here yet
