Kundalini vs K&C of HGA
-
It would be helpful if a clearer distinction was made between kundalini and KCHGA rather than merely insisting it’s not the same. If you read John St. John or Crowley’s comments upon formal completion of Abramelin and attaining to Adonai, it’s undeniably a description of full-blown kundalini arousal.
Now I have no problem with anyone insisting that KCHGA is “more” than kundalini. I would simply like to have details. In what way is it different? Once the crown chakra is fully illuminated, does that then lead to a clear vision of one’s Adonai? Hear His Voice? What are the signs and marks by which one distinguishes KCHGA from mere kundalini?
-
Have you read the two chapters on 5=6 in The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'.? I said there pretty much everything I probably can say. There is a strong ethic among adepts not to attempt to describe this out of a respect for not distorting someone's experience with misdirection from words having gotten in the way. (A few thing I said way too much.)
I will add this: The K&C of the HGA is a profoundly intimate union with a specific, distinct other.
-
Yes I have read the two chapters in your book.
I suspect that as the New Aeon progresses, this traditional secrecy around KCHGA will gradually disappear and ppl will become more open in speaking about this event.
-
It's not secrecy. It's that talking too much about it would be fucking with you.
I've probably written as much about it as anyone BTW.
-
@Alrah said
"At the moment - you have all the information that can possibly be accrued without you actually having KCHGA, and **none of it **is in the slightest way useful to you. You're wasting your time pursuing any further external investigation."
Exceedingly presumptious comments, Alrah. Perhaps you should join some school and get your ego under control?
The problem, as I see it, is this.
KCHGA is preceded by kundalini awakening, but those comments on KCHGA might equally apply to the reality and dangers of full blown kundalini awakening. Crowley does make a few comments in John St. John that hint Adonai is beyond kundalini (my question: how would Crowley know this unless he had already made contact with his HGA?). Memory is hazy, but he writes somewhere about how he rejects the firework displays, the aural coronas lighting up from the illumination of his crown, and pushes on toward his Adonai. But then he clams up on giving specifics at the end of his diary – which is extremely uncharacteristic of him.
-
@he atlas itch said
"Crowley does make a few comments in John St. John that hint Adonai is beyond kundalini (my question: how would Crowley know this unless he had already made contact with his HGA?)."
He had. JSt.J was his 6=5 initiation. He'd fulfilled te 5=6 work two years earlier.
But, of course, it was only to a certain point. I don't want to suggest that the exact threshold he described for himself in the start of JSt.J is a generalizable limen between 5=6 and 6=5, but I do want to emphasize that, once the K&C is established in 5=6, and the link secure, there is still a great deal more development of the relationship each person has to undertake, and this is essentially the work of the later Adept grades.
I don't want to generalize it because, so far as these details are concerned, there is a lot of individual difference. That is, these aren't the details that actually matter in the grade progress. (There are specific other developments of it that 6=5 and 7=4 bring about, and those details are in print.)
-
@Alrah said
"Tai - I've been reading you, here and on other forums for a few years now. May I know how long I should have waited to point out that you're wasting time? Or would you have felt that observation to be presumptious from anyone at any time?"
Alrah - the fact you’ve been reading me for years is irrelevant. You would need to know the other person’s Will before being in a position to assert they are “wasting time” and you are not privy to that information. I recommend you stay within your two areas of expertise - Tarot and smoking pot. Now let's get back on topic ok?
Jim - I will take another look at the grade descriptions in your book. But it would be useful to know whether other older traditions or systems prior to Crowley have written about KCHGA - specifically, the HGA as an other waiting beyond kundalini. To my knowledge it doesn't exist.
-
@he atlas itch said
"But it would be useful to know whether other older traditions or systems prior to Crowley have written about KCHGA - specifically, the HGA as an other waiting beyond kundalini. To my knowledge it doesn't exist."
You only have to go a few chapters in to Genesis to find a Kundalini awakening that doesn't result in K&CHGA.
-
That doesn’t sound correct.
Even if we interpret the serpent as symbol of gnosis or initiator, the Garden of Eden represents a pre-Fall state of consciousness whereas we live in a fallen state of consciousness. Hence after eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Adam and Eve fall into duality and become self-conscious. That would suggest their original consciousness was located in either Tiphareth or the Supernals (maybe someone can clarify this point - Gunther makes a few references in his book) and then fell down to Malkuth. To me, that would suggest the chakras of Adam were already open in the original state, rather than the serpent opening them, but they subsequently closed down and became dormant in the fallen state. The lifelong conditioning to a dormant consciousness is precisely what makes kundalini awakening so potentially traumatic and dangerous while it also provides a first glimpse, or reawakening, into the original consciousness of Adam.
-
@he atlas itch said
"But it would be useful to know whether other older traditions or systems prior to Crowley have written about KCHGA - specifically, the HGA as an other waiting beyond kundalini. To my knowledge it doesn't exist."
You gotta be kidding me....
How about of the numerous offshoots of the Northern India Sant Mat...? (anything that mentions the Sat Guru...etc.)
Not to mention the obvious testimony of so many Christian saints....
Dante Alighieri?
Maybe not prior but certainly independent...Robert Monroe.
-
@he atlas itch said
"That doesn’t sound correct.
Even if we interpret the serpent as symbol of gnosis or initiator, the Garden of Eden represents a pre-Fall state of consciousness whereas we live in a fallen state of consciousness. Hence after eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Adam and Eve fall into duality and become self-conscious. That would suggest their original consciousness was located in either Tiphareth or the Supernals (maybe someone can clarify this point - Gunther makes a few references in his book) and then fell down to Malkuth. To me, that would suggest the chakras of Adam were already open in the original state, rather than the serpent opening them, but they subsequently closed down and became dormant in the fallen state. The lifelong conditioning to a dormant consciousness is precisely what makes kundalini awakening so potentially traumatic and dangerous while it also provides a first glimpse, or reawakening, into the original consciousness of Adam."
Not quite. You need to look through the moralistic surface text.
While moving from the Edenic harmony of their original unconscious state, to the conflicts of their conscious state, appears to be a demotion - it was really an ascent, not a descent.
Remember, according to Genesis, Adam was made as a living soul, a nephesh. This corresponds to Assiah.
The self-awareness, sexuality, and shame that were the side-effects of eating the fruit were related to the opening of the Svadisthana chakra, yesod, and the dawning of ruach consciousness.
It can be confusing, because of our ambiguous feelings toward the Unconscious. On the one hand, we crave the state of Edenic harmony and uniting the two sides of the Unconscious and Conscious is an important part of K&CHGA. On the other hand, we fear being overwhelmed by our Unconscious animal nature, which is why the archetypal forest is full of monsters or dangers. But this is just a tangential point, back to the main topic...
There are many more examples, if you look. Kundalini energy was present (as symbolized by his rod/serpent) with Moses from his first initiation with the burning bush, his first sightings of Adonai, learning his HGA's name, all the way through K&C and his crossing of the Abyss to return with his word.
It's not complicated. Kundalini is a force. K&CHGA is an event. K&CHGA happens only once. Kundalini energy can rise a thousand times. They are related, and Kundalini energy can be a big part of the K&CHGA event.
-
@he atlas itch said
"Jim - I will take another look at the grade descriptions in your book. But it would be useful to know whether other older traditions or systems prior to Crowley have written about KCHGA - specifically, the HGA as an other waiting beyond kundalini. To my knowledge it doesn't exist."
The HGA is mentioned by Abramelin. Since that point in time, there is almost nothing of substance written about it, certainly not with any detail. The closest one could find would be in works like The Varieties of Religious Experience (James) and Cosmic Consciousness (Bucke). But possibly the best is Gopi Krishna's autobiography. Please note that in these last three, the same language isn't used - you'd have to read between the lines on the "symptoms."
-
The term "Holy Guardian Angel' can be found in Abramelin but interesting enough you won't find the term "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" anywhere in such...
The term "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" was created by Crowley ( and popularized by Case, Regardie, and Fortune ) so that no one would attempt to intellectualize or equate existing concepts such as Kundalini or Samadhi to the landmark Spiritual Experience he associated with the Adeptus Minor (Within)...
-
The HGA is an awfully similar idea to that of Ishvara.