illegal drugs and magick
-
I see nothing wrong with drugs per se.
Obviously the usual warnings about pre-existing mental conditions apply, especially for the more potent psychedelics.
That being said, my goal as a magician is to be able to enter various mental states at will. While getting into a state the first time or two is difficult, once I know the state well enough, I've learned how to recreate it. For example, I can recreate a fairly accurate stoned-on-pot state at will - with all the muladhara and anahata openness, the energy slowly moving through the head-face-to-solar-plexus and a little less inebriation. I can recreate a nicotine buzz (though I quit for good a year ago) with the fast and sharp energy buzzes in the extremities. Etc.
-
The drugs can be useful for 'loosening the girders' as they say, but I find little application in ritual because while it can induce the right consciousness, there is usually a lot of 'noise' from the extraneous elements of the substance, which causes concentration, memory recall, and other problems during ritual, for me anyway. I much rather achieve the state naturally, it is cleaner, last longer, and does not have the 'noise', although it takes longer to 'get there' than taking a hit of nitrous right at the key point in a ritual.
-
93 , i think that's very personal , but thinks the most is about indipendency , so you con use an airplaine to go across the desert , or a motorcicle , but maybe there will be a time when you can have only a camel , in the worst case only your foot , so ... thinks is better be able to do all things by foot , then , if you have the oppurtunity to use fastest devices , you then can choose by your will ... this is only my opinion
93 -
@izzy_suicide said
"this is just a quick question to anyone who'ld like to have a go on the matter.
i'm interested to hear other peoples opinions of drug use during magick ritual/meditation/spellworking. i ask this because,i've been a proud pothead since my early teen years (those scare vids they showed us only made us wanna hoot even more),and in my 20s lived a sort of...hunter thompson gone hardcore punk-lifestyle,for which i'll state i have absolutely no regrets.had it not been for these wilder days,i may never have realized christianity was a clawhammer to the soul.but my most in tune moments within my spiritual self have always been when i'm high,and my first true moment of connection with something of a higher power came during an lsd session,a night that changed my life and began my trip to where i am now,here on this site,finally able to access like minded people with far more experience than i have.
anyone with an opinion please let me know,pro or con."
Some drugs lead straight to demons like choronzon
-
could you tell me more about the drug-demon connection please? i'm very interested in demons,which i think may (like many other things and people) have been given more of a vile reputation than maybe deserved,although i aint dumb enough to think theyre all smiling shiny happy creatures either.
ive seen a few posts on this site where people talk about using "cannabis" (i personally hate that word,nobody calls the dealer and asks for cannibas...they ask for weed,and back home,pot...somehow as adults we sometimes tend to try and make things more intellectual lol),and as an avid and PROUD dopesmoker for half of my life,i can personally lay to rest all the lies and stretched truths that so called medical professionals tell to discourage its use.nobody gets mental disorders from smoking weed,they were already damned nuts to begin with.having spent 10 years hunkered over a blowtorch doing "hot knives",by now surely i'ld be pretty insane wouldnt i?..or would the people i grew up with who were next in line for a hoot?
i also had some wonderful lsd experiences,and i believe theres no such thing as a "bummer" or "bad trip".these were things meant to be felt and seen,and one must always remember hunter thompsons sacred psalm..."buy the ticket...take the trip"
i personally have had great experiences (spiritual experiences i should say) on many diferent drugs,some legal,some illegal,i dont reccomend drug use for everyone by any means,but for some of us it definately is a great tool in box to use when needed,or when one simply wants to enjoy.
my mother had a great quote "alcohol doesnt make a person do anything they wouldnt normally do sober,it brings out the tue person inside you",and i've learned over the years how true this is.
having said that,there are certain drugs i dont use,or wouldnt use,such as heroin,cocaine (though i have usd it in my youth,and wasnt impressed if i'm honest) or crack,which i feel is pure evil of the truest kind.
and,should anyone want to know about any drug they may not have tried,feel free to ask me,and i wont suger coat the response.along with the aforementioned weed,mushrooms and lsd,i've also done various forms of low grade methamphetamine,nitrous oxide(lets just say it...laughing gas...aptly named) and though i'm not proud of it,growing up in eastern canada also means i huffed my share of inhalants,which i strongly discourage for anyone,although ether if i'm honest was some of the best fun i've ever had,though i wouldnt do it now.
my overall advice to any new user is always "be smart,eat first,be well rested,and if your first time,find a reliable "babysitter",and be somewhere free from inteference".
i'll close this post by saying that had i never done lsd,i may never have figured out why i was such an angry person in my youth,i may never have began to question christianity,and worst of all,i never would have found the ability to distance myself from a situation that needs contemplation.
i only hope anyone else using drugs as a spiritual device has such wonderful experiences as i have,and may the spirits smile upon you all the while. -
"my mother had a great quote "alcohol doesnt make a person do anything they wouldnt normally do sober,it brings out the tue person inside you",and i've learned over the years how true this is.
"Are we our uninhibited impulses? Is that our true self? or just an aspect of us?
-
the answer to your question is dependent on the person asking it.
Some people couldn't handle mushrooms or an LSD sesh to save their life. Those people are best suited pursuing the godhead via other routes. Some people get dependent on psychedelics and abuse them to escape reality and end up delusional, so its very subjective your question.
I personally did copious amounts of LSD, mushrooms, salvia and smoked a shit-ton of pot for years. Over time my senses became refined and the psychedelic experience became redundant. I came to this conclusion one time while tripping on 25 hits of acid. The quote by Alan Watts played in my head, "When you get the message, hang up." So I did. There may be a time where i reincorporate psychedelics into ritual again, but for now things work great. We are constantly changing anyway.
You say you're a "PROUD" pothead. I don't even know what that means. I'd get over that distinction.
Anyway, there are amazing dudes out there using psychedelics combined with ritual to great effect. Take Sir Alan Moore (he should be knighted). He regularly uses mushrooms during ritual. He's even met some of the characters from his stories. Here's a link to an interview with him: www.bleedingcool.com/2010/07/13/a-new-interview-with-alan-moore/
And you should watch his movie, The Mindscape of Alan Moore:www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Cw3SJMXTg
The thing is, Magick IS the highest Art. It's about the Art of changing yourself in conformity with your True Will. WHY are you using psychedelics or pot? (Don't invoke because! ::gasp::) Kidding aside, make sure that the things you utilize to change yourself in accordance with your true will are directed at a noble purpose.
Bye!
ps. @Avshalom: i see you are from PDX. So am I. Were you ever involved in the rave scene during 2000?
-
Foolster, right on, neighbor. No, in 2000 I was a true-believer Jehovah's Witness printing books at their HQ in New York.
-
dude,you dont understand proud pothead?...youre stoned!..(sorry,had to lol,reflections of my lost youth)
i havnt done acid in a while,i have children now,alas,i'm an old man....half bald,you know the tale),but it did allow me to tap into that state of awareness with a bit of effort,where i can seperate "me" from "emotion",this has helped me more than i can express in more areas of my life than i could even explain,the most important being that i found true faith,not blind faith.
and i've sat smiling and thinking about "is it our trueself or an aspect of us",i thouroughly enjoyed mulling that question over all night.i believe when one is completely uninhibited,we speak more freely(sometimes not a good thing,as many people who've had that twelve drinks too many and looked the boss in the eye at the christmas party.."i never liked you"....)but we all know that part.is it possible that when in that state we are more aligned to our primal self,or our core being? how many times have we all heard "it wassnt me talking,it was the alcohol"..yeah sonny jim,but it used YOUR mouth to say it.
i would like to explain "proud" pothead.i come from eastern canada where at very least 60% of the population smoke pot (even old folks can roll up when you least expect it,i've had my head spun round a few times in absolute shock),but 6 years ago i moved to england,where theres just as many users,but they hide like skittish kids so "mommy" doesnt know they get high.this makes me sick to my guts,as people like this are the exact reason good people are handcuffed and written up as "narcotics addicts",thier lives blackmarked forever.these people think we have no power to change laws or make a difference in our world,where i KNOW if we all stod together for one damn day,marched right up to buckingham palace,hand in hand and side by side and looked our cabbage patch prime minister in the eyes and DEMANDED the laws be reformed,we could enjoy this one small aspect of our lives free of fear of criminal charges.somewhere since abbie hoffman died,evrybody lost thier spine.i guess i still believe the power lies within a nations people to change laws,stop wars,and make life better.as a side note,here in england,its perfectly acceptable to sort a line of blow at a party off a plastic table in your front garden,but roll a spliff and god help ya son lol...the gasps and shudders abound.somehowthis seems a bit back asswards to me,and lemme tell you,its no fun walking my kid to school and seeing mums grinding thier teeth at 8 am,cokeboogers still dangling from thier nose.i dont understand these strange people lol
i guess overall,if it works for you,wonderful,if it doesnt,dont do it.i find it easier to relax and get my head free of outside distraction when i'm conversing with the spirits,so i use it and have good effects.i dont doubt though it could be just as easily a hindrance for others. -
"Foolster, right on, neighbor. No, in 2000 I was a true-believer Jehovah's Witness printing books at their HQ in New York. "
ever print that yellow covered My First Bible Stories? red script?? grw up with that bible (weird consiidering mum was christian spriritualist raisin me christian!!lol ...... the JW HQ is also around a lot of Mason statues isnt it
-
@pixie_pseuicide said
"ever print that yellow covered My First Bible Stories? red script?? grw up with that bible (weird consiidering mum was christian spriritualist raisin me christian!!lol ...... the JW HQ is also around a lot of Mason statues isnt it"
"My Book of Bible Stories"? Yep
Masons? I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that the founder (Charles Taze Russell) was a mason, but he seemed to at least be a mason wannabe. He was obsessed with pyramidology, and his grave has a quasi-masonic, pyramid headstone. -
we were doing a bit research of it , a friend of mine, much older, said she ahd a JW Bible and described my old one (i loved the old testimant but stayed away from the new..just didnt feel right to me) and we found the direct link between them -we've reformatted since ill try to re-find it it was very convincing and showed the "landsape" of the JQ Headquatres right in the midst of ver obvious free masonry imagry,,, if you compare the JW beleif that only so many of us will be saved from the dude on the white horse on the last page, with the "illuminati-government" connections they have the same de-popululization goals.. ill get right on finding the link because i know it sounds like i'm cowpattin lol..
(its funny yknow i had a "warning"that night that we would find an "important discovery"..on another board somewhere here i described trying to hone in on the odd sense of premonition i had to chalk up to something big was going to happen research wise... its horrible but i dont remember all it encumbered at the time (we've personally dealt with the assholes in Gov that runs alongside the so called "conspiracy" theorists (tisnt conspiracy if ts presents logically with facts presented...) ... lol im rambling now ill find the link.
-
lol first try...
www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Jehovah%20Witnesses/jw.htm
has to say... it does tie into a lot...
(btw incase its not glaringly obvious im not calling YOU a population culler haha.. just intresting tidbits if nothing else..)
-
The belief that using drugs is something to be proud of as if it gives you reason to be respected is merely one mechanism by which addiction operates, the feeling or belief that drug use makes you better than other indicates only that you are chemically dependent, In this case the dependency manifest as a increase in inferiority feelings as withdraw symptoms and reduction in such feelings with drug use.
Also the belief that a drug gives you special states of mind, powers, or other abilities is merely any symptom of chemical dependency.
And if you are taking 25 hits of LSD at a time, the reason you find you no longer need the drug, is that your brain has been changed so much that the LSD effects persists permanently. LSD triggers the brain into learning mode and this means that whatever happens on a drug trip, is experienced as Extremely intense and amazing, because those are feelings that happen when the brain is re-configuring it's neuro-networks, forming new connections. This normally happens the most during childhood as we experiences new things for the first time, and later in life if we experience new things that we have not yet fully incorporated into our mind. LSD effects the brain such that common things seem new and important and thus causes the brain to learn, to build new neural connections.
The problem here is that the brain re-configures under the distorting effects of the drug and also an the first impressions without any kind of filter to insure that what it's recording in stone, is actually correct. So new information gets all linked up to feelings of meaning, somatic effects, strange beliefs, behaviors, etc.
When the drug wears off, people get bored from the lack of over-stimulation, the feeling that everything is new and amazing. Also especially with repeated use and high doses, those brain changes became solidified and even new sober experience is not enough to correct this re-wiring of the brain. Thus you don't need to take the drug again, since the brain is already warped. The result is most probably a continued life time of subtle yet often quite unpleasant changes in perception, cognition, ego-construction, and affect stability.
Long term LSD uses often seem to drift from one mood to another, to have a shifty sense of self, to misperceive events in the world (mistake hoses for snakes), to be over sensitive to sounds, lights, and patters (Patterns having emotional/somatic effects they should not). It is easy to mistake these changes in the brain for the effects of "illumination" from true initiations, since the non-initiate and the pre-LSD uses have not experienced either type of effect on the mind-body.
If anything the use of say 75-100 micro-grams of LSD given to the initiate, might make the ritual experience impact upon the nervous system more intensely, insuring the shocks and teachings of the ritual hit their marks. But I would warn against this because 1) LSD is illegal. and 2) under one time use like that the effects of LSD to change behavior and beliefs etc, only last about 1 year. Ideally the effects of an initiation ritual should last a lifetime or at least until the next initiation, the use of LSD might cause the rituals effects to wear off in 1 year. 3) the ritual may just cause panic attack or mental break downs in people not suited to LSD use, making the ritual miss it's mark greatly. 4) The effects of symbols and rituals on people is not an exact science as it is, and the effect they have on people on drugs is unpredictable, they initiate could leave with an impression totally unlike the intent of the ritual.
So, from my studies and personal experiences, I have to say, drug use is not very useful combined with rituals.
I know very little about other psychedelics, like Crowley used Mescaline when he explored the aethyrs in the vision and the voice. If the drug does not effect cognition, affect and ego the way LSD does, them maybe if it's major effect is to stimulate the visualization or imagination faculties of the brain without the others being effected then this drug may be useful for scrying and astral projection. If you happen to be native American or otherwise legally in possession of this substance, you may want to do you own experiments, but I have no personal or academic knowledge on it's effects.
Certainly sedatives may aid in meditation and stimulants if you are up til all hours doing a particularly rigorous ritual, but warned this may have subtle and not so subtle effects on your results. Especially the mixing or continuous alternation of the two. Dissociative anesthetics DXM, Ketamine, PCP, these I do not think have any benefit to the magician, other than as agents of chrononzion. If you goal is to invoke inertia no the point of lethargy and paralysis or yourself off to the light of consciousness so that the dumb beast of the body is allowed to thrash about blindly. These drugs may be of help, but this is the opposite goal to magick which is illumination, these drugs shut out the light.
Salvia Divinorum, the actual effects of this drug are brief, 5-10 minutes, and they are intense visions of confused symbols, feelings of intense motion and pressure in the body, generally an emotion of confusion and deep concern persist, while physiologically uncontrollable laughter is common. These effects are useless. However, some people report a feeling of being refreshed, a warm happy feeling free of worry and yet full of energy to put to use, after the drug has run it's course. This hearty and invigorating state may be put to good use in work, magick or otherwise. From the studies I have read and the effects I have witnessed on myself and others, Salvia Divinorum seems to have no long term effects or addictive potential (Usually the experience is so intense people are not quick to repeat it, not do the feel the lack of stimulation as with LSD cessation).
I note once again, I do not recommend the use of any of these drugs, where prohibited by law. Further I do not thing any are necessary to attainments in magick or mysticism, in fact most cases they are detriments or alterations, They are useless decorations added to the wand as Crowley says in Magick Part 2
-
i really enjoyed your post froclown,and appreciate your opinion,however,it inspires me to reply because i simply wouldnt be giving the whole story otherwise.
theres a very definate line between "enjoyment" and "dependency",and while some people (who in my experience have usually tended to be weaker willed and slightly less than stable) develop a dependant relationship with non addictive drugs like marijuana,the majority of pot smokers never do.i believe many folks tend to forget one of the best things about marijuana use,the ability to lose one's self and enjoy a well functioning sense of humour,be rid of the stress of daily events (which is also the reason many people seem to require that glass or ten of wine in the evenings,or that two finger glass of bourban),and any one with half a sense of self realizes that these substances dont rid one of lifes troubles,but do help put distance between them and therefore aid the ability to re-think a situation.
what one may take as "distortion" of the senses,or reality,or focus,another may indeed take as a truer portrait of the reality at that moment.high doses of lsd are (in my opinion,and only an opinion) probably not the best tool to use when performing any ritual,or for that matter the simple task of making a sandwich.
there are plenty of substances/drugs i havnt done,and more i certainly wouldnt want to,as i've witnessed first hand casualties of ketamine,cocaine,heroin,and the mixed bag stir-a-pot pills that oh so many folks seem to gobble down like smarties.however,i dont for a moment believe there arent some people in this world quite capable of handling even those,even if i dare not tread such waters.
its very easy for us to quote statistics and textbook definitions,but lets not forget that these stats and books are written by people who've never had the courage to test themselves while using the very subjects they write about.untill timothy leary,there simply were no scources whatsoever written by people with actual experience,and sadly,we've tended to venture back to that sad state of affairs these days.
but are we truely to ignore the fact that since time itself began,mystics and shaman and see'ers worldwide have used all manner of "herbs and spices" to attain higher wisdom? the very person we come here to celebrate and learn from was an advocate of such devices for the exact reason,even if by all "straight" accounts,mr.crowley died a morphine addict,penniless and all but forgotten.somehow friends,i get this sneaking feeling those reports may have been written by people not very fond of his beliefs,but i admit i may indeed be wrong there.
as i've said before,i dont advocate drug use of any kind for everybody.for some of us,the legal status is an issue,for others,it just simply wouldnt do any good,and they have thier own methods.
my reason origionally for posting this topic was to see if others saw the value in these methods,and i'm very pleased with everyones responses,and i thank you all for taking the time from your day to write them.it does mean the world to me to have others opinions,as i spent many years living in a place where access to ANY information was impossible,and one could get a savage beating for being interested whatsoever in magick,and uttering aleister crowleys name would get you blacklisted within a 200 mile stretch (sadly folks,this is very true,even if you find it hard to imagine places like that exist)
i do want to clear up something which i think some of you are taking the wrong way.
i AM a proud pothead....as opposed to "sceintific cannibus user",i've never been quite that pretentious,even when i was a glamrocker lol.if anyone believes that my pride in being such is to garner respect,quite honestly,my opinions on "respect" would take an entire new post,but the condensed version is,there is no such thing except the respect one has for themself.should others believe you to be a decently put together human being,than a more correct term would be "friendship",as the very word respect has been so savagely molested that it no longer holds much weight (again,this is only my opinion).maybe the reason i take pride in my pot use is,i remember who i was before i smoked herb,and it wasnt very nice.
i dont care much to reflect on those darker times,but suffice to say that i'm no longer the self destructive,violent,angry or depressed person i was back then,and the very tool that dug me out of that pit was marijuana,and had it not changed my outlook on things with such force,i may never have discovered my path to my "true will".i may not have gotten all the way up the ladder yet,but i know rung by rung i'm making progress.so,in a ritual setting,or even slightly more relaxed and casual spell casting,i have found certain drugs to be of great use.in fact,as a sacrifice,a good sized "bud" offered to a certain spirit i speak with was greeted with a whisper in my ear that still happens almost daily,and guides my way toward a higher sense of self (no pun intended)
-
::high five::
-
@izzy_suicide said
"this is just a quick question to anyone who'ld like to have a go on the matter.
i'm interested to hear other peoples opinions of drug use during magick ritual/meditation/spellworking. i ask this because,i've been a proud pothead since my early teen years (those scare vids they showed us only made us wanna hoot even more),and in my 20s lived a sort of...hunter thompson gone hardcore punk-lifestyle,for which i'll state i have absolutely no regrets.had it not been for these wilder days,i may never have realized christianity was a clawhammer to the soul.but my most in tune moments within my spiritual self have always been when i'm high,and my first true moment of connection with something of a higher power came during an lsd session,a night that changed my life and began my trip to where i am now,here on this site,finally able to access like minded people with far more experience than i have.
anyone with an opinion please let me know,pro or con."
93,
The proper drug in the proper setting can be a boon to the spiritual explorer. As long as you take the necessary precautions, such as proper research, you will find drugs to be a safe demonstration of higher states of consciousness.
93 93/93 -
i'm not trying to nitpick here,but,i'm finding folks are very carefully choosing thier words,and this while expanding my own thoughts on the matter,does somewhat also seem strange as i try to incorperate it within my own experiences.
now,i'm asking this because i think i'm misunderstanding the last post completely,and i'ld like to properly be able to take it on board.
"demonstration" to me would mean,"almost like the experience,but not THE experience" i.e,an altered state of conscienceness.
as a musician (though thats a loose term for a man who beats the hell out of things with sticks,i've always considered myself a "drummer" but not exactly a "musician",and have hockey playing friends back home who consider themselves "goalies" but not "hockey players"...strange as it seems lol),when i've done "demonstrations" for people in past years,it was a general overview of "how" a drumkit works in basic theory as opposed to "playing" the kit in the proper setting."almost" the real thing,but not quite the real thing.
i'ld once again like to stress that i'm not trying to become the tot drug dealer or timothy leary reincarnation lol.however....
isnt anything that takes out outside of our normal day-to-day mindset and typical way of thinking/feeling a valid "altered state"? i'm not just refering to drugs here either.
if one listens to repetative music,or music based around "drone" at high enough volume,they can find themselves suddenly,and for prolonged periods,in a trance state and more easily in tune to spiritual visions/messages...i suppose,more opened spiritually than they were before.i believe this is why brian jones recorded the "joujouka" album,and the idea that the stones great album "thier satanic majesties request" was based around.this is also a major interest of mine,and one i spend a good deal of time exploring.
some people drive at stupidly high speeds to feel "in tune" with "the road".while i myself am better off walking than driving,my own brother is one of these people,and has more times than i like to recall(as his passenger) began speaking in almost hippy-esque limerik style while pushing a car upward of 100 mph,looking more at me than the road itself yet never once missing a turn,almost as if being guided safely,while his own thoughts were nowhere close.this i admit,may not be the best example,but one i myself think is valid in its own way.
i've also known what today are called "extreme sport's atheletes" (in my day known as "those damnable kids on skateboards GET OUT OF MY POOL") who lose themselves and become "one" with the sound of the wheels,never once doubting they'll land that trick from the 25 foot drop to the unforgiving pavement below.no thought,no fear,listening to a voice they themselves may not even hear clearly,but trusting it all the same.
people seem to discourage certain methods of finding ones own divinity,or connecting to a higher star than themselves.i believe some of this is a fear of thier experiences being either laughed at or looked down on as not as valid,or worse yet,that absolutely silly idea that they'll not be taken as "adult" enough.
i'm bastardizing the quote,but i seem to recall crowley saying something like..."take strange drugs",yet so many of his pupils seem to find the idea almost replusive,and this my friends makes no sense to me,the exact reason i suppose i keep asking you all to clarify,as i openly admit i may indeed be missing youre most valid points.
-
"Some drugs lead straight to demons like choronzon"
Great bumper-sticker candidate!As always, the proper modus operandi is Do What Thou Wilt.
On the subject the dangers of chemical stimulation, I can say this: after years of personal research and observation, I've come to the conclusion that it is a personal issue. Stronger specimins may take, say, LSD a thousand times and experience little ill effect (mental, physical, or spiritual), while someone with latent pyshic issues might take a miniscule dose for the first time and find themselves in the throes of a pyschotic breakdown. I've seen it happen.
Personally, I've toned down my experimentation, and opt for a natural approach when it comes to such things as ritual, meditation, etc. Like Froclown describes, mind-altering substances such as LSD often become a spiritual crutch for the aspirant. On the other hand, organic substances like marijuana and opium are relatively harmless when taken in moderation. Only individuals with latent psychic pain are apt to make such things habitual, in the same way one takes up smoking cigarettes.
Besides the illegality of these substances, there is little reason to go overboard when it comes to "illegal drugs." The fascination they pose to the less developed is merely a symptom of spiritual poverty: some take up drugs for an ego boost, seeking the "notoriety" that comes from being an addict. But neither is the opposite approach laudable: to condemn illicit substances on the basis of health or sanity is ludicrous. Any honest study will show that the prohibition of an "illicit substance" causes only a decrease in purity, an increase in cost, and more taxes for society, as it cost money to maintain prohibition, which does not actually eliminate the substance, but drives it into a black market.
Again, the only law is "Do What Thou Wilt."
-
i've been thinking heavily over the last couple days about trying to enter a meditative state while focusing on a sigil of my own design as an experiment,by doing the same exercise two nights running while high on "that old devil weed"(sorry,for some reason heard me mums voice yelling at my 17 year old self for a second lol),and then,taking two days off,and again doing the same exact things only completely sober,to compare the results and effect it has on my overall being,for lack of a better phrase atm.
now,not having done it yet,i'm thinking that the results "should" by all standards be quite different,yet intertwined.has anyone else tried anything like this,and if so,did you find the results varied by huge degrees or only slightly?
i'm going to make notes best i can,as i do tend to find it hellishly hard to write things down after such rituals,a problem i need to sort so i can reference my own damned experiences lol.
and yes,there is no greater threat to a persons stash than a cat with a serious drug addiction lol,i havnt had the misfortune to have such a thing happen,but the stories i've heard from others leave me in stitches lol