Body of Light exercises
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@Ash said
"I don't think being totally involved in a subconscious realm and allowing it to spawn imagery freely means giving up CONTROL.
"Ash, could you expand upon this?
I think if the Body of Light is sent exploring without specific guide posts (pathworking a is an example), then chaotic imagery without rime or reason arises. My experience has been that consistent exploration in the BOL (in this manner, without any guide posts or guidance to at least create an environment for the experience) by just allowing 'whatever' to arise as uncontrolled imagery, results in imbalance. It happened to me when I got into shamanism. I feel like there's chaos in me and speak and act clumsily if I do several BOL explorations and just allow the mind to spawn imagery. It's like allowing disorder to arise in that realm creates disorder in the Microcosm and then the Macrocosm seems disordered (temporarily).
I've kinda accepted that BOL exercise with guided imagery (at least minimal) can be good and just letting 'whatever' arise can mess you up temporarily.
I dunno. Maybe I'm not looking at something!
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@Ash said
"I don't think being totally involved in a subconscious realm and allowing it to spawn imagery freely means giving up CONTROL.
Also, from what I understand - most Thelemic conceptions of Pathworking aren't strictly structured in the way that the Golden Dawn's were (or that the exercises of the modern organizations calling themselves the Golden Dawn are)."Not true. One has to have a specific place to go.
One of the best examples is probably* The Vision & the Voice.* In vision after vision, one can see Crowley beginning by formulating an image key that embodies the essential definitions of the aethyr name, using this as a "key" to unlock where he was wanting to go.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Not true. One has to have a specific place to go.
One of the best examples is probably* The Vision & the Voice.* In vision after vision, one can see Crowley beginning by formulating an image key that embodies the essential definitions of the aethyr name, using this as a "key" to unlock where he was wanting to go."
Thanks for correcting my mistake.
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Jim,
I just found an interesting article the other day in the Black Pearl, Vol 1, No 7 called "Color is the Key : A Real Ladder of Lights" and it seems like a really good asset for creating an astral "workout program".
I have a couple questions that also seem pertinent to the OP's questions:
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It seems that exercises to build Dharana (control of thought) are very helpful for astral travel. At what point would it be smart to start including paths/sephirot/the four worlds/etc.? My instinct is to do this pretty early on, maybe after the tatwas and 4 classical elements...
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How much intellectual prep should you do in advance, before exploring an "astral destination"? For example, do you study lots of 777 correspondences, the tarot card, other, for a specific path so you can direct your vision? Or do you just keep a couple in mind, like a symbol and a color scheme, and record your vision, later comparing them against correspondence tables to verify the accuracy of your vision?
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@Ash said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Not true. One has to have a specific place to go.One of the best examples is probably* The Vision & the Voice.* In vision after vision, one can see Crowley beginning by formulating an image key that embodies the essential definitions of the aethyr name, using this as a "key" to unlock where he was wanting to go."
Thanks for correcting my mistake."
I suspect the mistake is a common one, and it's good you brought it to light. I suspect it stems from the way Liber O instructions are written. The first part of the astral instructions don't infer that you're going anyplace specific. That's because their purpose is to let you "just get the fuck out." But after that, the progress is quite specific. Crowley mentions in one place in MT&P that one should eventually travel each piece of the Tree of Life in turn, establishing a relationship with each part.
Why isn't that in Liber O? Probably because Liber O and E were not written to be used in a vacuum (other than as a "getting started"). They presume direct in-person instruction. They're just the crib notes.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"I just found an interesting article the other day in the Black Pearl, Vol 1, No 7 called "Color is the Key : A Real Ladder of Lights" and it seems like a really good asset for creating an astral "workout program". "
Glad you liked it, and thanks for pointing it out
- I also reproduced that at the end of 776 1/2."I have a couple questions that also seem pertinent to the OP's questions:
- It seems that exercises to build Dharana (control of thought) are very helpful for astral travel. At what point would it be smart to start including paths/sephirot/the four worlds/etc.? My instinct is to do this pretty early on, maybe after the tatwas and 4 classical elements..."
Dharana exercises are important, yes. After all, in your journeying, there is a split quality, a bit of a struggle between directing attention through your physical senses (as one is habituated to do) vs. one's inner senses. The ability to put one's mind where one wishes and keep there is basic to the whole experience.
In Visions & Voices, I retell the story of Crowley's early frustrations with magick until his mountain climbing buddy Ekhartshausen took him under wing and taught him to concentrate. The drills Oscar gave him are the basis of the dharana practices in Liber E.
And yes, beginning to explore Paths etc. comes early.
I'm not sure, though, that I would think of this as an expansion of the dharana practices. If you've been practicing concentration, then there is a significant chance that you'll have really excellent early luck with penetrating into Yetzirah and succeeding in the vision work. Therefore, I really think you need to treat it as magical practice, not meditation practice. That is, it should be done in a magically sealed place (at least a Pentagram Ritual), and the undertaking fortified by an appropriate invocation (so that you are building and strengthening your tendency to go only where you choose when you choose), and that you know the basic means of navigating, testing, etc. You may not need this all right at the beginning - but I'm betting it won't be long.
Of course, one can simply meditate on ideas related to Paths etc. without crossing the line to "journeying."
"2. How much intellectual prep should you do in advance, before exploring an "astral destination"? For example, do you study lots of 777 correspondences, the tarot card, other, for a specific path so you can direct your vision? Or do you just keep a couple in mind, like a symbol and a color scheme, and record your vision, later comparing them against correspondence tables to verify the accuracy of your vision?"
One is perhaps "stacking the deck" too much to study all the symbols immediately before before an experiment, I think. The better approach (and the one recommended in Liber O) is to learn all of that stuff in advance and have it stable in one's mind. One will often "prime the pump" just before an experiment by meditating on the corresponding Tarot card, or meditating on basic ideas of the Path, and certainly by doing the ceremonial invocations to attune oneself to it.
Attune - that's the key - you're tuning your mind like a radio to one specific frequency, which is the only one you want to pick up. Color is one of the best "tuners." Sometimes after beginning, one finds the tuning is a bit off, or there is static (within oneself usually), and one needs to fine-tune a bit more with the pentagrams and Divine Names, etc.
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While there exists a large body of instruction on the topic of Astral Travel, etc. etc., there is really no set rule for attainment. I myself figured it out during an attack of the delerium tremens. One might say this: explore your consciousness as much as possible, and you'll find the key, each their own way.
Or, in other words, VISITA INTERIORA TERRAE RECTIFICANDO INVENIES OCCULTUM LAPIDUM
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I keep seeing astral travel, OBE and body of light used interchangably in many circumstances. Is it fair to use a book geared toward one to also perform the others?
I have great difficulty with this practice and what gets to me is when occult folks I know say it cant usually be done by most people. I'd like to think it's not a question of If for me, but When.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not sure, though, that I would think of this as an expansion of the dharana practices. If you've been practicing concentration, then there is a significant chance that you'll have really excellent early luck with penetrating into Yetzirah and succeeding in the vision work. Therefore, I really think you need to treat it as magical practice, not meditation practice. "
Thanks for all this helpful info.
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@Escarabaj said
"I keep seeing astral travel, OBE and body of light used interchangably in many circumstances. Is it fair to use a book geared toward one to also perform the others?"
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Not entirely. You might get something from one that helps in the other, but shouldn't confuse them.Primarily, OBE has nothing to do with the others, and actually is never required in the standardized course of training. It's a nice side-effect, and has virtue, but it's not part of what's required. What appears to be an OBE-type experience (creating an artificial body and transferring your consciousness to it) is a training method for opening and focusing your inner senses to become perceptive and functional in Yetzirah.
"I have great difficulty with this practice and what gets to me is when occult folks I know say it cant usually be done by most people. I'd like to think it's not a question of If for me, but When."
The part that is required by the A.'.A.'. and related systems can be attained by most people. It does, however, often require some preliminary training or gearing up, in the same way that joining a school football team starts with pre-season drills.
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Some further thought on the above:
Within the magical traditions, especially of Western initiating orders, intentionally engendered and directed vision work is an important part of the training. It is perhaps the most important part of the training and practice that accomplishes the specific task of opens one from the World of Assiah to the World of Yetzirah. It shows up under various names, such as viewing, scrying, or travelling in the astral, in the fine body, or in the spirit vision.
Astral travelling is probably the most misleading term, because it wrongly infers that one is going from one place to another. In terms of physical space, this is not so; however, inwardly, psychologically, even spiritually, one is most certainly undertaking a pilgrimage. The term scrying has more advantages, because it means an active, intentional seeking of something.
This scrying is an induced waking dream. The part of the mind through which one enters such a vision is one’s personal sub-consciousness, the field of mind wherein dreams occur. Just as with dreams, the distinctive language of these visions, often peculiar and haunting to the rational self-conscious mind, has symbols for its “words.” Symbols are the units of the distinctive language of subconsciousness.
This doesn't mean that the method is "just imagination" in the minimizing sense that phrase is usually used. Your imagination is your power of visualization on the plane of Yetzirah, and, when backed by conscious intention, is the psychological tool that actively creates (short-term or long-term) actualities in the substance of Yetzirah, just as a potter uses physical hands to mold a specific shape from physical clay. Your power of "imagination" - that is, imaging - is your faculty of sight (vision) in Yetzirah. Your personal subconscious mind is the portal through which you enter this world (since it is a somewhat segregated pool of Yetzirah itself, just as your physical body is a somewhat segregated 'pool' of physical substance existing within the larger physical world).
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Jim, thanks for your chock full of insight responses.
Someone should gather all your posts on this site and compile them as a limited edition book. 
I'm glad to see that Thelemic BOL projection or what you call it, is based on some guide posts and not just jumping through into whatever the subconscious decides to throw at you. I'm going to start read The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune tonight...so I can at least get a rudimentary kindergarten level awareness of what Yetzirah, Assiah, and all that is. When I was a younger mage I thought Qabalah was for the old folks and disregarded it's use as a true Chaos Magickian...now twenty years later...well..you get the picture!
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Mahanta, there is a post in the "Announcing: Visions & Voices" forum that gives an early draft of a section from my new book - a discussion of the nature of the Four Worlds. You might want to check that out.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Primarily, OBE has nothing to do with the others, and actually is never required in the standardized course of training. It's a nice side-effect, and has virtue, but it's not part of what's required. What appears to be an OBE-type experience (creating an artificial body and transferring your consciousness to it) is a training method for opening and focusing your inner senses to become perceptive and functional in Yetzirah. "
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm curious whether OBEs "feel" different than Body of Light travel. For example, is there an overlap (could an OBE turn into astral travel and vice-versa)? Are OBE's more "real" subjectively?
What I'm worried about is expecting the wrong sort of experience. I've read many accounts that astral projection is essentially like "real life" but I also read about people doing "pathworkings" or whatever and they're basically in a chair having visual images pop-up like a daydream, but it's not fully immersive in the same sense.
I realize I've probably convoluted some terms, but I'd appreciate any insight nonetheless.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Some further thought on the above:
Within the magical traditions, especially of Western initiating orders, intentionally engendered and directed vision work is an important part of the training. It is perhaps the most important part of the training and practice that accomplishes the specific task of opens one from the World of Assiah to the World of Yetzirah. It shows up under various names, such as viewing, scrying, or travelling in the astral, in the fine body, or in the spirit vision.
Astral travelling is probably the most misleading term, because it wrongly infers that one is going from one place to another. In terms of physical space, this is not so; however, inwardly, psychologically, even spiritually, one is most certainly undertaking a pilgrimage. The term scrying has more advantages, because it means an active, intentional seeking of something.
This scrying is an induced waking dream. The part of the mind through which one enters such a vision is one’s personal sub-consciousness, the field of mind wherein dreams occur. Just as with dreams, the distinctive language of these visions, often peculiar and haunting to the rational self-conscious mind, has symbols for its “words.” Symbols are the units of the distinctive language of subconsciousness.
This doesn't mean that the method is "just imagination" in the minimizing sense that phrase is usually used. Your imagination is your power of visualization on the plane of Yetzirah, and, when backed by conscious intention, is the psychological tool that actively creates (short-term or long-term) actualities in the substance of Yetzirah, just as a potter uses physical hands to mold a specific shape from physical clay. Your power of "imagination" - that is, imaging - is your faculty of sight (vision) in Yetzirah. Your personal subconscious mind is the portal through which you enter this world (since it is a somewhat segregated pool of Yetzirah itself, just as your physical body is a somewhat segregated 'pool' of physical substance existing within the larger physical world)."
Just wanted to say:
This is one of the most helpful collections of information and explanation I have ever received from you, Jim.
You're super duper.[Yes, I just called you super duper. I'm tired.]
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@Escarabaj said
"I'm curious whether OBEs "feel" different than Body of Light travel. For example, is there an overlap (could an OBE turn into astral travel and vice-versa)? Are OBE's more "real" subjectively?"
There's certainly a relationship. It's not that hard to explain the difference.'
What are commonly called Out of Body Experiences are technically etheric projections. The etheric level is sometimes called "lower astral." It's closer to the physical, though - Qabalistically attributed to to Malkuth rather than Yesod, for example (or, perhaps more accurately, part of Assiah instead of Yetzirah). The "etheric world" is the subtle level immediately under the physical universe, the one you read about in various occult works as being the 'astral' framework that holds matter in place.
From an experiential point of view, when exteriorizing from your body at the etheric level (i.e., when operating your senses from an etheric or dense-astral, 'body,' you pass through what looks very much like the physical world around you. The etheric forms are essentially the same as the physical universe. The two are causatively related.
In contrast, the 'astral world' proper needn't look anything at all like the physical world around you. It might do so incidentally, as in a dream; or it might do so initially, as a take-off point; but, in this case, it is doing so as a symbolic representation, or as a convenience for orientation etc.
"What I'm worried about is expecting the wrong sort of experience."
Yes, expectations can screw with you
. Instead, why not set them aside and simply record what you actually get.You're apparently trying to go this alone. I know that's a popular idea, and it's "in" to be all in favor of independent undertaking. I'm just not sold on it. I still think the first thing someone should do when entering this work is find a teacher and latch on for the duration. The Great Work is undertaken partly by personal effort (and the great breakthroughs are, ultimately, entirely of that sort); but the linkage and empowerment come from direct person-to-person transmission, generation after generation. I don't think you can find a single great initiator in history who "did it all by himself." They all got the key catalyst from a teacher (one might better say, a trainer).
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Escarabaj said
"I'm curious whether OBEs "feel" different than Body of Light travel. For example, is there an overlap (could an OBE turn into astral travel and vice-versa)? Are OBE's more "real" subjectively?"There's certainly a relationship. It's not that hard to explain the difference.'
What are commonly called Out of Body Experiences are technically etheric projections. The etheric level is sometimes called "lower astral." It's closer to the physical, though - Qabalistically attributed to to Malkuth rather than Yesod, for example (or, perhaps more accurately, part of Assiah instead of Yetzirah). The "etheric world" is the subtle level immediately under the physical universe, the one you read about in various occult works as being the 'astral' framework that holds matter in place.
From an experiential point of view, when exteriorizing from your body at the etheric level (i.e., when operating your senses from an etheric or dense-astral, 'body,' you pass through what looks very much like the physical world around you. The etheric forms are essentially the same as the physical universe. The two are causatively related.
In contrast, the 'astral world' proper needn't look anything at all like the physical world around you. It might do so incidentally, as in a dream; or it might do so initially, as a take-off point; but, in this case, it is doing so as a symbolic representation, or as a convenience for orientation etc. "
In that case, is the Body of Light astral or etheric, what plane does it operate on?
I'm assuming it's the astral because the world explored in the BOL, and the BOL itself do not need to resemble the physical universe. That's interesting as that would imply it is more difficult to achieve etheric projection. But when does etheric projection actually occur? As far as I can tell, only NDE accounts seem to mirror a duplicate universe resembling the physical one without deviation...even those tend to deviate to a non physical light or something of a less objective nature. Interesting distinction you point out between OBE and dreaming- I had not seen it that way before.
Could it be said that BOL and 'astral' exploration in locations resembling the physical universe are partaking of the etheric plane? My point being that the BOL and it's activities start on the etheric level and then enter the astral plane. -
@Mahanta70 said
"In that case, is the Body of Light astral or etheric, what plane does it operate on?"
It depends on how you build it, and how far out you get. It may only be "a figment of your imagination." It may be etheric (Assiah). Or it may be astral-proper (Yetzirah).
"But when does etheric projection actually occur? As far as I can tell, only NDE accounts seem to mirror a duplicate universe resembling the physical one without deviation...even those tend to deviate to a non physical light or something of a less objective nature."
One can train for it. There are particular techniques where it's useful. Most systems that train it at all don't bother until pretty late in the training program.
"Could it be said that BOL and 'astral' exploration in locations resembling the physical universe are partaking of the etheric plane?"
Not necessarily. You can use a "mock-up" of a known physical place for, say, a dream context (or any other vision).
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A simple explanation of Alrah's exercise can be found in Mumfords book of Magical Tattwa Cards. Unfortunately it is out of print, but worth the money to get your hands on it.
BTW I am loving everyone's contributions on this thread!
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Speaking of the etheric vs astral....
I don't know if this is a common mistake, or just because I have a preponderance of earth signs in my chart... but...
Confusing the two was my first big mistake. I kept trying to physically leave my body at first. I succeeded in separating from the waist up, but it was all very tedious and strange...
Then I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was trying to go "out" when I really was supposed to be going "in".
Here's a quick sketch of a pretty common model for the collective unconscious...
http://soothandlies.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Universe.jpg
The blue is the material world
The humps are individuals
The lightest grey is the personal conscious
The medium grey is the personal unconscious
The darkest grey is the collective unconsciousWith astral travel, you can independently verify your data... in other words, you crossed the line separating your personal unconscious, and entered the collective unconscious. The tricky part, to me, is maintaining consciousness and intent, while "turning off" the input from 1) the material world, then 2) the personal conscious, then 3) the personal unconscious. It's like walking a tightrope. It's easy for me to either lose consciousness and/or fall asleep, or get pulled out of the astral by physical or mental stimuli.
I strongly suspect dharana exercises help you deal with the physical/mental distractions, so that you can maintain greater consciousness and travel deeper.