Comgining low and high magick? Wicca and Thelema?
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I am sure this has been asked in the past so I apologize if so, but I was wondering if one could be successful doing both high and low magick, do you need to pick one or the either? I am assuming that you can do both but if I choose to pursue both paths should I set up two different alters, one for low magick, one for high magick, can I mix magical tools and their associations or do I need to get a separate wand, dagger, pentacle, cup for each tradition since I know that in Wicca, for example, the wand is often attributed to air instead of fire?
And more generally are the belief systems behind Thelema and Wicca incompatible in your opinion? I have been a novice to high magick and Thelema for about a year (finally training my will to do rituals, exercises, etc. daily) but after doing a full moon invocation of the God and Goddess to see what it was like, I have had a STRONG calling to follow that path as well. Any thoughts are appreciated. -
Here is the controversial answer to ALL your questions as I subscribe to it : draeconin.com/database/wicca.htm
"There is a word to say about the Hierophantic task. Behold! there are three ordeals in one, and it may be given in three ways. The gross must pass through fire; let the fine be tried in intellect, and the lofty chosen ones in the highest. Thus ye have star & star, system & system; let not one know well the other! "
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I'm not even going to try and answer any of your questions, just thought you might appreciate looking into the following reference:
In an anthology of essays on the contemporary occult scene called the Book of Lies, The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult, edited by Richard Metzger there is a curious article on the origins of Wicca and the infamous Book of Shadows as presented to the world by Gerald Gardner.
I looked, and this article is not online anywhere I can find, so the only way you are going to read what it says for yourself is if you find it in a library or buy it. It's called "The Secret History of Modern Witchcraft" by Tau Allen (no relation) Greenfield. Here is my synopses.
The main points seem to be these: According to the author, Gardner and Crowley were aware of each other; and more so, they actually hung out. Historical copies of the Book of Shadows, the bible of the witches of the Gardner line, seem to be limited to the twentieth century, despite the claims of many Wiccans to its having been about in one form or another for centuries.The Author then speculates, based mostly on the timing of various historical events, some detective work into the surviving manuscripts of the Gardner estate as owned by the 'Ripley's believe it or not collection,' in addition to some similarities in style and philosophical sentiment between the core Wiccan rituals, which includes The Book of Shadows, and some of Crowley's writings that Crowley was in fact the author. The conclusion is that Gardner, who lacked the literary and encyclopedic knowledge base of Crowley, hired him to write the rituals and most of what eventually became the bible of the witches. Phew!
Apologies for the run-on sentences.
Robert
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@RobertAllen said
"I'm not even going to try and answer any of your questions, just thought you might appreciate looking into the following reference:
In an anthology of essays on the contemporary occult scene called the Book of Lies, The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult, edited by Richard Metzger there is a curious article on the origins of Wicca and the infamous Book of Shadows as presented to the world by Gerald Gardner.
I looked, and this article is not online anywhere I can find, so the only way you are going to read what it says for yourself is if you find it in a library or buy it. It's called "The Secret History of Modern Witchcraft" by Tau Allen (no relation) Greenfield. Here is my synopses.
The main points seem to be these: According to the author, Gardner and Crowley were aware of each other; and more so, they actually hung out. Historical copies of the Book of Shadows, the bible of the witches of the Gardner line, seem to be limited to the twentieth century, despite the claims of many Wiccans to its having been about in one form or another for centuries.The Author then speculates, based mostly on the timing of various historical events, some detective work into the surviving manuscripts of the Gardner estate as owned by the 'Ripley's believe it or not collection,' in addition to some similarities in style and philosophical sentiment between the core Wiccan rituals, which includes The Book of Shadows, and some of Crowley's writings that Crowley was in fact the author. The conclusion is that Gardner, who lacked the literary and encyclopedic knowledge base of Crowley, hired him to write the rituals and most of what eventually became the bible of the witches. Phew!
Apologies for the run-on sentences.
Robert"
Funny you mention the very article my reply linked to.
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@Takamba said
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Funny you mention the very article my reply linked to."
Strange it didn't turn up when I searched for it, I guess Google isn't all powerful, or maybe I just entered the wrong information. The truth is out there!
...or is it?
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93,
There used to be a Book (or 'Bok') of Shadows in Gardner's Museum of Witchcraft in the Isle of Man. It included a mish-mash of stuff from various grimoires, plus some Crowleyan material. At one point, this ended up in the possession of the heads of the Wiccan Church of Canada, in Toronto. (EDIT: This had come to them via Ripley's Believe It Or Not. The high priest in Toronto has, or had, quite a lot of cash).
I used to have a copy of The Wiccan Candle, their newsletter, which had a write-up on this that they headlined "Ye Olde Detritus," in an attempt to discredit it as "Wiccan source material," as some people thought it to be. This doesn't discredit the story of Crowley and Gardner knowing each other, of course, since Gardner was in the OTO for a time.
As far as the original query here, I think it's important to attempt both paths - or several paths. The trick is to pay close attention to the inner promptings, and not continue with something just because you get a buzz off the rituals. I've seen people with strong attachment to neo-pagan or neo-shamanic paths mess up their Thelemic aspiration because the Qabalistic work didn't give immediately discernible results. By the time they realized they were chasing the buzz more than a spiritual goal, things were too muddled for them to go on.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Thanks for all your replies, i think for now i will continue doing rituals from both. While I realize that the signifigance I attach to them is what makes them unique in the first place, would it help if I got two sets of tools, one dedicated to low magic (so dagger for fire, wand for air, pentacle for earth, and cup for water) and one for high magick (dagger-air, wand-fire, pentacle-earth, cup-water)?
Also on an unrelated note, for a newcomer to Thelema and high magick these are my following daily rituals for the time being as I regain and build my visualization skills etc. any recommendations?
Liber Resh
Will Ritual (done before meals)
LBRP
LRH
Tarot Contemplation -
@Laertes said
"Liber Resh
Will Ritual (done before meals)
LBRP
LRH
Tarot Contemplation"Looks to me like a Donlad Kraig program. That's good as far as i can tel. And to tell you my personal preference, the answer is that I don't have separate tools used for either magickal styles (although I do dress differently and have more tools than just the elemental weapons for my Theurgy)
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I was a solitary Witch for a very long time. In the beginning I didnt care that I was only hearing one instrument, I was at the dance. For me though, doing Wiccan rites alone, is like dancing alone. Its all good and well most of the time, but well its not really a true dance. I know that the drums I hear are just a part of a larger chorus of sound, of light and that for me I can learn a new dance, and maybe I wont have to do it alone;) Ironic that in many ways, for me at least, Thelema allows me to move beyond sex, while in wicca that was all I could see.
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93
You know, in Crowley's Confessions, he explains how he went about setting up one "White" room for one and one "Black" room for the other.
I am presently reading Duqette's :My Life with the Spirits among my other studies which of course has spurred me to pick my former studies of what Thelemites may consider "Low Magick" back up. I wish that I would have noticed this topic b/4 I posted my question about Opening by Watchtower / Goetic Magick. That is to say that you'r low Magick (being of a different path) may not necessarily be Goetic, e.g., or what we call "Low Magick" in nature; I think that the semantics/deffinitions are part of the question being asked. It's just my own projection of interest of what you are talking about hopefully not to far out of range from you'r question. Sorry, had to remember you'r initial question. Thanks for spurring me ownward.L.V.X.x Love x Will = Magnitude.
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Read the chapter in Magick in Theory & Practice on the formulae of ALHIM & ALIM. This is exactly the distinction between High Magick and Low Magick, so-called.
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93
Thanks Jim.
L.V.X. x Love x Will = Magnitude.
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