Goetic Magick and Liber Samekh
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In another Thread in the Magick forum "Oppening by Watchtower / Goetic Magick" Goetic Magick is recommended to stay away from.
I discourage goetia per se because it's a scummy, abusive system filled with spirits that have been maligned and mistreated for centuries, and can generally be expected to act out like violently abused children the first chance they get.
Thus, it may not be a good system to spend much time in since there may be better ways.
From my understanding Liber Samekh is Goetic and was the "Ritual employed by the Beast 666 for the Attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel".
Did he clean up the Goetic components to better suit this goal so that it is a more suitable ritual to attain this end? Is there a differentation of terms and grammer between what we're referring to as Goetic in the classic sense and what the ritual Liber Samekh is meant to be?
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@mojorisin44 said
"From my understanding Liber Samekh is Goetic and was the "Ritual employed by the Beast 666 for the Attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel"."
It isn't at all goetic in the sense meant by the title of The Goetia, that is, The Lesser Key of Solomon.
You are probably responding to (essentially) the same Greek word in the title, in a phrase that translates, "the highest goetic theurgy." Rather than debate whether the word "goetic" applies there, I think the main point in answer your post is it doesn't link this ritual to the specific grimoire commonly called The Goetia. That is, it doesn't apply the same methods, and doesn't address the same specific 72 spirits.
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93
I am so glad you brought this up!!! This is what spurred me into the questions I asked. Thanks also Jim for clearing some of the question up w/what you said above. I am learning (all b/it slowly
) 2 ask the right ?'s here on this site. It truly w/in my very short time of being subsribed has taught me so much. Glad to be a student....L.V.X. x Love X Will = Magnitude.
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93
1 question though? The evocations alone are the key 2 understanding if 1 is Goetic or no?
P.S.
After thinking about it I suppose this should b obvious 2 me. I suppose I equate all "Low" Magick somehow subconsciosly w/Goetic in nature. This said; this is the reason I suppose I felt that I needed 2 b/armed w/Enochian also (i.e., "Just in case" measure) as I asked or was confused about the two systems 2 begin w/w/in my previous post. I don't know why I think the way I do sometimes???
You have definitely cleared a lot of rubble for me the past couple of days. thanks...........L.V.X. x Love x Will =Magnitude.
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If I am not mistaken Evocations do not equal Goetia. Thus, Goetia, from my limited understanding, is a system of spirits and hierarchies that are contacted via the methods of cermonial magick and evocation. However, if one is using ceremonial magick and evocation it does not necessarily mean they are using the system of Goetia with their spirits and hierarchies.
Understanding Goetia might be a different question though. To understand it, I would assume, like any other system, one must study the complete system and the details. Then one would use the system via the methods proscribed to reach the desired result - which involve evocation. However, as Jim stated and I have heard others iterate, it is a system that over time has been abused and I'll be staying away from employing it in the future. However, I would think its historic value for study would still be good.
This is all of course different than Liber Samekh from Jim's explanation above.
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@mojorisin44 said
"If I am not mistaken Evocations do not equal Goetia."
Exactly. The Goetia is one catalogue of spirits, and one specific set of methods for evoking them.
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Now as I understand it, Crowley appended the "Preliminary Invocation of the Goetia" or the Bornless Ritual, as a means fr the operator to identify himself with the "divine," making the operator a fit authority to command and conjure the spirits. Correct?
What do you think his intentions were with publishing his rendition of the Goetia? -
I think the original idea was much as you say - to establish the magician in command of the elementals in general - and that, later on, he realized it had value as an HGA invocation and used it as such - eventually coming to the conclusion that this was it's real best purpose.