magick circle
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@helemita1 said
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I had want that circle because when I wrote that I was believin' in Therion, Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit. Then I want to experiment. Now my faith is gone."Since you mentioned the Satanic Bible, let me enter a mental decompression chamber, evoke a 'suspension of disbelief', and pretend that you are not a troll for the duration of this post.
How did you come to believe in "Therion, Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit"?
Why has your faith departed?
How is the philosophy of the Satanic Bible "very similar" to Thelema? -
If I may hazard a probably unwarranted opinion a visible circle is of no necessity unless you are having trouble visualising one in your minds eye. because all magick begins on the astral in your minds eye to begin with, the visual addition of a material circle is only for you if you really need the reminder.
Just a thought. -
@Mahanta70 said
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@helemita1 said
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I had want that circle because when I wrote that I was believin' in Therion, Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit. Then I want to experiment. Now my faith is gone."Since you mentioned the Satanic Bible, let me enter a mental decompression chamber, evoke a 'suspension of disbelief', and pretend that you are not a troll for the duration of this post.
How did you come to believe in "Therion, Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit"?
Why has your faith departed?
How is the philosophy of the Satanic Bible "very similar" to Thelema?"First, I want to know how you judge me a troll. Just for know.
I come to believing in Thelemic pantheon because I like much the extreme culture of Aleister Crowley (aka Master Therion), been a wise man that I adore. My faith has departed because I come to realize a few things, that first my mind did not have clear, about Thelema. Then, I come across my collection of books, and I saw some books of Anton LaVey. And yeah, The Satanic Bible is very similar to Thelema. The idea of True Will, and the Expression of Ego and liberation of Sin of The Satanic Bible is mentioned in The Book of Law. The idea of Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit sono rispettivamente God (as a entity external to the body), Hadit (the God-man interior), Ra-Hoor-Khuit (the freedom from sin and Christianity). For not speakin' about the collection of Anton LaVey's essays that are much likely the brother Aleister Crowley. -
93,
" My faith has departed because I come to realize a few things, that first my mind did not have clear, about Thelema. Then, I come across my collection of books, and I saw some books of Anton LaVey. And yeah, The Satanic Bible is very similar to Thelema. The idea of True Will, and the Expression of Ego and liberation of Sin of The Satanic Bible is mentioned in The Book of Law. The idea of Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit sono rispettivamente God (as a entity external to the body), Hadit (the God-man interior), Ra-Hoor-Khuit (the freedom from sin and Christianity). For not speakin' about the collection of Anton LaVey's essays that are much likely the brother Aleister Crowley."
Anton LaVey copied ideas from a variety of sources, Crowley included. However, nobody would say he was a mystic, or a deep thinker, or even a magician of any attainment. I don't know of any practicing Thelemites who take him seriously.
If his work helps you in some way, it doesn't mean you are a troll. But do remember, really understanding Thelema is the work of a lifetime. It certainly was for Crowley, who was smarter and more dedicated to this work than most people are capable of being.
93 93/93,
Edward -
@Edward Mason said
"93,
" My faith has departed because I come to realize a few things, that first my mind did not have clear, about Thelema. Then, I come across my collection of books, and I saw some books of Anton LaVey. And yeah, The Satanic Bible is very similar to Thelema. The idea of True Will, and the Expression of Ego and liberation of Sin of The Satanic Bible is mentioned in The Book of Law. The idea of Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit sono rispettivamente God (as a entity external to the body), Hadit (the God-man interior), Ra-Hoor-Khuit (the freedom from sin and Christianity). For not speakin' about the collection of Anton LaVey's essays that are much likely the brother Aleister Crowley."Anton LaVey copied ideas from a variety of sources, Crowley included. However, nobody would say he was a mystic, or a deep thinker, or even a magician of any attainment. I don't know of any practicing Thelemites who take him seriously.
If his work helps you in some way, it doesn't mean you are a troll. But do remember, really understanding Thelema is the work of a lifetime. It certainly was for Crowley, who was smarter and more dedicated to this work than most people are capable of being.
93 93/93,
Edward"Thelema is the work of a lifetime, but I remember that also Laveyan Satanism is a work of lifetime, because the Satanist lives and mastery his self-ego and expression. The thelemita mastery a idea that was existing in a mind already dead, that of Master Therion. Satanism is life, and innovative. Secularism apart, Thelema stand for a doctrine, the other not.
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93,
"I remember that also Laveyan Satanism is a work of lifetime, because the Satanist lives and mastery his self-ego and expression. The thelemita mastery a idea that was existing in a mind already dead, that of Master Therion. "
Using ego to master ego is like trying to hold water in a cup that itself is made of liquid water. It's ultimately a futile effort.
The human being Aleister Crowley died, but the Master Therion is something more than human.
93 93/93,
Edward -
@Edward Mason said
"Using ego to master ego is like trying to hold water in a cup that itself is made of liquid water. It's ultimately a futile effort.
The human being Aleister Crowley died, but the Master Therion is something more than human."
With mastering ego I mean know our own limits (I can assure you that everybody has own limits), simply know what somebody is. That's just a great pass through the age, and in history is proclaimed from the creations of religions.
Master Therion was Aleister Crowley and both were humans, and they died working for a creations of their own mind. How can you proof that Master Therion was something more than human? If you respond "with faith", then I will leave you in your idea/philosophy. I'm not here for judging my brothers and sisters.
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93,
"How can you proof that Master Therion was something more than human?"
I can't prove it to anyone but myself. But my own experience of what he inaugurated, what he taught, and all the secrets he opened, is proof enough for me.
93 93/93,
Edward -
I don't want to sound aggressive, but for the chap who said "Thelema is doctrine" you are not understanding it very well in my opinion. Re-read liber AL and maybe you will understand. It says in paraphrase 'convert not, argue and talk over not' because doctrine is a waste of time. it is one of the most anti doctrinal and anti dogmatic books out there.
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@christibrany said
"I don't want to sound aggressive, but for the chap who said "Thelema is doctrine" you are not understanding it very well in my opinion. Re-read liber AL and maybe you will understand. It says in paraphrase 'convert not, argue and talk over not' because doctrine is a waste of time. it is one of the most anti doctrinal and anti dogmatic books out there."
So, now I don't wanna be take seriously when I say something. With "Thelema is a doctrine" I mean however you worship diverse entities, Nuit in principal. Then, you can say, Nuit is the space around us, and not a entity with a ego, but this is another discourse that I don't want to talkin' about. As I said, Thelema embraces many theories of Anton LaVey, so I say that Laveyan Satanism is very similar to Thelema. When you practice LBRP, you believe in something, indeed metaforicamente, but this is common to all known religions, include Wicca. When Aleister Crowley affirm that a entity -aiwass spoken the Liber AL, then I conclude that him was believin' in the existence of those entities as being with ego. Now, I understand that many of you won't concord with him, because as I said "Nuit is the space around us", although Master Therion believed in God, and entities superiors in higher plane.
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@helemita1 said
"The thelemita mastery a idea that was existing in a mind already dead, that of Master Therion. Satanism is life, and innovative."
Anton LaVey died a few years ago.
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@nashimiron said
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@helemita1 said
"The thelemita mastery a idea that was existing in a mind already dead, that of Master Therion. Satanism is life, and innovative."Anton LaVey died a few years ago.
"It's not a discourse about deaths. But ideology. Aleister Crowley was a man of extreme fantasy and dedications, but his works began and finished in his mind and in his life. Then, if you want to continue the work of a dead men, you can. As I said, I ear not for nothing. Anton LaVey, is dead, but his works are those of life, and are not based upon a fantasy. It's just like be atheist. We haven't the Babalon symbol, you can say, we have Baphomet, but this doesn't mean much.
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Do what thou wilt.
Do what works.
I like the straightforward way of Lavey. There is much to be learnt from pragmatism.
Disclaimer: I am not a thelemite, I just roll here. I study, and use my own brain.
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It's not a discourse about deaths. But ideology. Aleister Crowley was a man of extreme fantasy and dedications, but his works began and finished in his mind and in his life."Actually, Crowley believed everything IS connected, as when he said something like (don't remember the exact quote) "harming another, is only harming yourself". You have to understand, ones work in life, weather it be what you love to do, job, hobbies, or magick. It just doesn't start and end in your mind, it affects everyone and everything around you. The Universe is composed of vibrations and frequencies all mixing up all the time! You may die, but your work, your legacy, will live on.
"Then, if you want to continue the work of a dead men, you can."
Another point. "Don't contradict yourself". How is it not possible to continue something from a dead man? If you don't understand, read what I wrote above ^. Unless you creating your own cosmological belief system, which is theory is still false, because you would be continuing the idea and work of some guy thousands of years ago who was trying to accomplish the same thing. We are non-less the physical by-product of our Ancestors, especially what we get from our parents. The dead, once decomposed, gives grounds for new life.
Note: Anton Levay was a probationer in the A'.'A'.', like many others, it was and still is a sink or swim thing, that neither Levay or other failed probationers could prove their ability to swim. As for Levay, he left, never made it past that grade and did his own thing, which is perfectly fine. You have bassackwards. Levay took from Crowley! Like many others, even Gerald Gardner.
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It is passed a long time from the last visit I made to this forum. Actually, I can say I doubt everything whom was said by
Aleister Crowley, and everything who has connection with religion and spirituality. Apart some sayin' of Crowley's books, and other from other part, I still don't believe in theism. I'm forced up to be atheist, but today I believe that it is impossible deny the existing of Gods, like any other form of life in the space. What I think now of LaVey, (I didn't know he was a A.'.A.'. member) is that he said very interesting thing, in a very easy manner, that everything can understand him. However, I take kabbalah, and the law of karma very deep, and I searchin' up for better understand of these subject. I'm very glad to be welcome at the thelema community, and I still rank Crowley's books as an good point in the white space. What I said, for me, is very changed, it is evolved. -
93!
"Why do you want to create that specific circle?"
Is it specific? I thought that the book 4 discusses a common furniture of a temple. Is not that so?
"Why do you specifically want a circle? Most magick is done within set-aside places, but not within a formal circle."
Hmm.....I'm doing my daily practice within the magic circle. In addition to the symbolism, Crowley described in the book 4, the circle gives me a atmosphere of the magical work. It inspires me!). It's bad to work in a circle when it is not needed?
Mr. Eshelman, are there any considerations, according to which it is better to me(as a beginner) to do my basic practice without the formal circle? (I practice relaxation, LBRP, asana)