Enochian Entities and Satanism
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@horustheantichris said
"As experts in the occult and in particular Enochian Magick, I am very interested to hear your opinions on the following theories that I have collected from around the Internet.
Is there any truth to the theory that the Enochian entities feed off of our energy?"
I've never had the slightest sense that they are vampiric. In fact, the Seniors are great concentrations of spiritual force.
Of course, there are also demonic entities that can be formulated from certain patterns of the letters (mostly done by reversing the spelling of certain names). These may have malignant natures, although such characterizations are usually masking something more subtle. I've barely had anything to do with these at all. (It is as easy to find low-vibration entities out in the subtle worlds as it is to find silly statements on the Internet - and for much the same reason.)
"How about the theory that Satanism is worship of certain of these Enochian beings and ritual sacrifice is payment for knowledge gained from them? "
Anton LaVey used the Enochian Calls in his version of Satanism (which is far, far, far from what most people would think of when they mention Satanism - he was mostly preaching the extraordinarily controversial doctrine of living a rich life). Enochian beings do not require ritual sacrifice. They are usually all too willing to help.
"How does Satanism related to magical systems?"
Satanism is a religion, like, say, Christianity. (It has many varying forms, some of which bear little relationship to each other beyond the name.) Any religion can be the basis of a magical system. The religion Satanism has no intrinsic relationship to ceremonial magick per se.
"Is it the profane's misconception of legit magical systems or is it a perversion of the magical system by those who seek power?"
Depends on the Satanist. It might only be an indication of serious interest in early heavy metal music.
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Thank you Dar, Robert, and Jim for all your answers. I really appreciate you sharing your insight.
Jim you said that they aren't vampiric in nature, are there others that are?
Also, are these the same guys talked about in the book of Enoch?
From what I have been able to determine there are three classes of spirits: the Watchtower elemental spirits, the Goetic which are our personal demons/behavior, the fallen watchers of Enoch. Is this correct? Am I missing any?
Also, this crossing of the abyss that Is described in the Great Work is this in fact crossing over to the spirit world and then coming back as the spirit? What is the difference between the spirit and the astral world?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions.
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@horustheantichris said
"Jim you said that they aren't vampiric in nature, are there others that are?"
Oh, yes. Incubi and Succubi are the most common in that class.
"Also, are these the same guys talked about in the book of Enoch?"
No.
"From what I have been able to determine there are three classes of spirits: the Watchtower elemental spirits, the Goetic which are our personal demons/behavior, the fallen watchers of Enoch. Is this correct? Am I missing any?"
You're missing dozens to hundreds of classes (and I don't necessarily agree with the breakdown or characterizations you've used. (For examples, I wouldn't at all characterize Goetic spirits as "our personal demons" etc. They are quite objective and independent of a particular magician.)
"Also, this crossing of the abyss that Is described in the Great Work is this in fact crossing over to the spirit world and then coming back as the spirit? What is the difference between the spirit and the astral world?"
The Abyss is the immeasurable chasm between humanity and divinity. It is one of the greatest errors in the last half century of magick for someone to concern themselves with it at all before they have attained to the Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. It has nothing to do with "the spirit world" as usually meant (which usually means lower Yetzirah - the "spirit world," as usually meant, is a low level of the astral world).
These topics are all addressed (in what I think is a clear form) in the early chapters of my book Visions & Voices: Aleister Crowley's Enochian Visions with Astrological & Qabalistic Commentary.
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Thanks again for answering all my questions. I admittedly know very little and trying to make sense out this fascinating information (while at the same time practicing).
I will definitely pick up your book, this thread has proven a great endorsement
. I thought MMAA was great.One more question: if the spirit world is a lower astral world, then can't you just project their and talk with them there without the need of invoking and ritual?
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@horustheantichris said
"One more question: if the spirit world is a lower astral world, then can't you just project their and talk with them there without the need of invoking and ritual?"
Sure. In fact, it's not even that hard. Such beings are really easy to establish contact with by simple psychism. They thrive on telepathy. Of course, the less ritual, the fewer safeguards you have installed (usually).
You don't mean invocation. Spirits are evoked. And evocation is worth learning for its own sake. (In A.'.A.'. it is one of the skills that the Philosophus 4=7 has to master before passing to Dominus Liminis.) There is something to gain by practicing formal methods of taking the highest essence of a principle and bringing it down the planes until it manifests to your physical senses in a barely-above-Assiah astral form. It teaches you much about the architecture of the planes, and many other things become easier.
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You are blowing my mind Jim. How do you keep from going crazy knowing what you know? Do you ever think "holy shit, I can't believe this stuff is real!"
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@horustheantichris said
"You are blowing my mind Jim. How do you keep from going crazy knowing what you know? Do you ever think "holy (****), I can't believe this stuff is real!"
"That's one question I don't think I've asked myself in a long time. After you've visited a spectacular natural wonder (Bryce Canyon in Utah, the Grand Canyon, Niagra Falls, or whatever), you no longer think, "Wow, that couldn't be real." After all, you've seen it
For a long time, I've taken for granted (based on personal experience) that magick is real.It's all in having done the work. - But this is no different from any other life area or experience. I've done IT support for hundreds-to-thousands of computer users in person, and for tens of thousands online; so it isn't surprising that I have the "magick power" of having some sense of what different types of computer users are like, and zeroing in on many of their issues before they quite get a question articulated. It's all in having been there and done the work.
I passed examination in finding my way around the astral plane over 30 years ago. Later work took me deeper. I can't say that I can navigate the inner realms and the Four Worlds as easily as I can navigate Los Angeles (which I know very, very well), but I can do it about as well as I can navigate a city I've visited once and wandered around on my own (like, say, Salt Lake City which is very conveniently laid out and easy to navigate). It's just a matter of putting in the time and getting truly familiar with something.
I hope that doesn't sound like bragging. I mean to say that this is in everybody's reach, and becomes familiar and even ordinary when you actually familiarize yourself with it and gain increasing exposure to it.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"After all, you've seen it
"Have you seen me there? If I've been it was not done intentionally. I'm trying though
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@horustheantichris said
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"Also, are these the same guys talked about in the book of Enoch?"No. "
"How is Enoch related to Enochian Magick/Language? By name alone? Is this whole Book of Enoch stuff for real? Did these "Watchers" really do the deed with the daughters of men? If so how do they fit into the whole spirit world Hierarchy?
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@horustheantichris said
"How is Enoch related to Enochian Magick/Language? By name alone?"
By name alone.
John Dee didn't call the system "Enochian" - he called it the Angelical Language, etc. The name "Enochian" was given by later generations, because it came from Dee writing that he wanted to talk with God's angels as had the prophet Enoch.
"Is this whole Book of Enoch stuff for real? Did these "Watchers" really do the deed with the daughters of men? If so how do they fit into the whole spirit world Hierarchy?"
It's as real as Genesis. (Draw your own conclusions on what that means <g>.)
I've never paid much attention to anything it says.