The Great Work - How do you define and live it?
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I think the idea behind "sitting in a room staring at the tip of your nose" as you put it, can be summed up thus:
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."
Matthew 7:5
And also:"Physician, heal Thyself"
Luke 4:23The idea being that until you have discovered your own Will/Orbit/K&C of the HGA/ whatever; you are in no position to do anything in a co-ordinated manner.
"if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."
Matthew 15:14So, the idea of "sitting about staring at the tip of your nose" is not about some sort of Mañana attitude, at least not for those of us who are actively involved in the Work, meditation is as pragmatic as recycling and conservation work for me, it just works on a different level is all.
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@Dar said
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@Froclown said
"The great work is to establish on earth the kingdom of God. "No. It really isn't.
It's a fantasy that pleases the ego that wants some 'real work' to do so it can feel usefully employed, worthy, needed, and that there is a reason for it's existence that is way lot cooler and suits it far more than the present one it's experiencing but not accepting.
To think that 'the great work is to establish on earth the kingdom of God' - is pure hubris. The kingdom is established. It's been pretty established for the last 4.54 billion years infact.
I think you're over thinking all this completely, Fro."
It always struck me as funny that my avowed goal in life "To perform the great work" basically consists of seeing my own bullshit in order to be completely natural, and anything more than this is mere hubris, and what makes it even funnier is that I am required to jump through all these hoops to get back to the original nature.You have to laugh I suppose
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In lieu of the daily meditation not being posted yet I am posting a few thoughts. I guess it forms something of a response to the question posed in the topic heading.
Monumental systems that purport to define the relationship of the individual to the culture, humanity at large, the planet and the cosmos are monumental distractions, imho. They tend to put me to sleep. I know with some certitude—the result of staring at my nose in a locked room—that any idea I hold as truth is an instance where I am no longer creatively and dynamically engaging my reality.
I am content for the moment with knocking things down. If something resists my efforts to knock it over it gets my provisional respect, at least until I get a little bigger and stronger and finally manage to push it over; the longer it stands the more respect it gets, until it falls, then it's time to move on.
No offense, but whenever I read Froclown's didactic posts about the glorious new world order of Thelema, I have this fantasy about the time when one faction of Thelema will rise up and massacre those other factions that it doesn't agree with. In this regard I am my own best example of why these visions of order are bunk! In the fantasy I'm kind a hoping his faction gets whacked because I love the mess! I find the patchwork nature of reality that one experiences in the field much more comforting than the theoretical fantasies of someone who clearly has not lived.
How do I define and live the Great Work? By getting on with it, even in this totally illogical, chaotic mess of a world. Worrying about how it all fits together just means I sit around arguing on forums like this against ideas which are clearly temporary at best. My advice to myself: enough with the reasons for not working, now it's time to lock the door, sit with an erect spine and stare at the tip of my nose.
Love and Will
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I have to admit, my one reservation about Thelema is that it might one day acquire a "Prophet" or some sort of unifier who will destroy the diversity and simplicity of the philosophy and, taking the pseudo-Nietzschian standpoint transform it into a kind of Spiritual Fascism where anyone who doesn't get with the program and do their "Will" as dictated by the heads of the ruling party, will be summarily put to death or ostracised as "centres of pestilence".
The arguments are fun, the ruminating and the "who's got the biggest ruach (read "Penis") contests" are fun, but the thing is, as you say, to just get on with it, and try not to **** with anybody along the way.
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Yay!!! That was fun!
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I just read all these post and I am going to say whats on my mind. I am not going to quote anyone. I hope this is not a problem.
There is such a thing as the 93 current. Once you experience it you cannot mistake anything else for the 93 current. It has a very distinct "feel" or "taste" .
The 93 current emanates from the Spiritual plane. The Spiritual plane is the A.'.A.'. (The Spiritual plane is pure energy. There is no form and there is no difference made between anything.) So the 93 current comes from the A.'.A.'..
If we allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current, then by definition we are doing our True Will.
Why?
The 93 current is a natural force of the Universe. If one is aligned with the motion of the Universe, one cannot be doing anything but one's True Will.
All of us are striving to be in harmony with the Universe even if we fight this Harmony.
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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Not into??
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Dar said
"... and I suppose members of the A.'.A.'. can shoot lightning bolts out of their arses too?
"Hahaha:) how did you know?
But seriously, I don't think that's possible short of sticking an electrical wire down someones throat and flipping a switch:p I am not volunteering.
The Universe works Harmoniously. This harmony includes life, death, destruction, and formation. We can choose to fight this harmony or we can become a part of this dance.
The 93 current allows you to dance in step with the Universe. The trick is learning to listen and learning to submit to what the Universe tells you. If you choose the path of Balance via the 93 current you declare your willingness to be in balance with the Universe. The Universe will correct you if you sway from this path. If you listen you get back to the business of the Great Work. If you ignore the Universe, the corrections get more severe. We only need to listen and trust. If you believe this there is no longer a need to fear any action you might do. If you do something wrong, the Universe will tell you. You are free to do your True Will;)
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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@Frater MVKDSh said
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If we allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current, then by definition we are doing our True Will.
Why?
The 93 current is a natural force of the Universe. If one is aligned with the motion of the Universe, one cannot be doing anything but one's True Will. "
from the practical point of view, that's the worst thing you could think to do! that's actually a reversal of what one should do! why?
beacuse you - here, now, you (or I) as an individual - have to start from the here_and_now, and that means, you have to determine your specific nature and your specific purpose of your specific individual existence.
~ take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves ~sure, accepting the Law of Thelema, we "allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current".
but it's almost useless tautology to say that.where is your specific place here_and_now, frater? acknowledge that, and go from there!
that current you speak about is not something outside of yourself, not some abstract entity, a 'thing' that we should look out and search to find and etc...(whatever) --- NOSCE TE IPSUM --- know thyself, and allign with the core of thy being! and let the Current take care of itself -
@danica said
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sure, accepting the Law of Thelema, we "allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current".
but it's almost useless tautology to say that."Yes, that's right! And to see it pointed out on this thread is definitely worth the price of admission.
Love and Will
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"where is your specific place here_and_now, frater? acknowledge that, and go from there!
that current you speak about is not something outside of yourself, not some abstract entity, a 'thing' that we should look out and search to find and etc...(whatever) "I dont see the 93 current as abstract. I feel it constantly . It is a reality for me and it impacts my life.
I first felt this sensation two years after I started studying Thelema during my 1st Initiation. I have felt the 93 current constantly since.
I never felt I was special. I believe and know of many people who can "feel" the 93 current in their lives. I think this is just a natural consequence of a Thelemic Initiation created by a Magus and done by a true Adept who can channel the 93 current from the astral to the Aspirant.
This is what happened to me and I am sure happened to others. If we take just one step on this Path we will come to its end. This might take lifetimes, or just one lifetime. Either way there is a True momentum created once we align ourselves with the 93 current. This momentum is created by the 93 current.
This has just been my experience and the experience of others I know who blessed me by sharing their thoughts on this subject.
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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@Frater MVKDSh said
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I dont see the 93 current as abstract. I feel it constantly . It is a reality for me and it impacts my life."
saying it's abstract does not mean it is not real (those are not mutually exclusive phenomena).
you seem to completely miss the point of what I was trying to convey. and adding more words to it will not help.
93/93
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"Froclown said: The only way to change the world and achieve the great work is to take direct and practical actions."
The Secret Chiefs are possessed of immense powers, called the "Ophidian Vibrations" which allow them to "insinuate [themselves] into any desired set of circumstances." (MWT, 9:92) These powers allow the Secret Chiefs "to induce a girl to embroider a taperstry, or initiate a political movement to culminate in a world-war; all in pursuit of some plan wholly beyond the purview or the comprehension of the deepest and subtlest thinkers." (MWT, 9:92-93)
You're confused son. It takes one spark to burn down a forest.
See: Recent Arab Spring.
"*Froclown said:*There is no such thing as a field that unites all minds."
I'll assume you are being provocative, but assuming you are not, just because you have not experienced something does not mean it doesn't exist. You're also less likely to experience a phenomena for clutching an idea so tightly. Also, how can anything not be touching? Everything is connected....
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There is no such thing as a current or a spiritual plane or a "Pure energy" or any of this bullshit.
There are Physical actions of matter, that is all. There is gravity, Electro-magnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces. These are all the "forces" that exist. Energy is an expression of the potential motion stored in a system of matter, due to the forces, and forces are merely a the properties of material particles in how they act upon other particles.
There is not the slightest evidence for the existence to such nonsense, outside of paranormal investigation experiments that have always been shown inconclusive often outright fraud and full of methodological errors. The Rhine institute has not found a single true and conclusive case of "ESP".
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Froclown said
"There is no such thing as a current or a spiritual plane or a "Pure energy" or any of this bullshit.
There are Physical actions of matter, that is all. There is gravity, Electro-magnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces. These are all the "forces" that exist. Energy is an expression of the potential motion stored in a system of matter, due to the forces, and forces are merely a the properties of material particles in how they act upon other particles.
There is not the slightest evidence for the existence to such nonsense, outside of paranormal investigation experiments that have always been shown inconclusive often outright fraud and full of methodological errors. The Rhine institute has not found a single true and conclusive case of "ESP"."
Thats what they told Copernicus when he first tried to explain that the Earth revolved around the Sun
Reading what you post makes me confused as to why you are even on this site.
Love is the law, love under will.
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Here is an example.
Because all my life I have seen the buildings around me lean and sway in the wind and I fear they will collapse, as I see bridges and roads in disrepair. What I want is to ensure the safety of the people and bring solid construction and beauty to the world. Of coarse I am only a child and I have no means knowledge or power to do anything as yet.
So I seek to educate myself, I read lots of books, learn math and science, practice building model bridges. I develop a great understanding of engineering and design. It is my Will to be a great architect. i visualise myself as the such every day, and every day my self images grows stronger, I totally kill my non-architect personality. I only speak in construction terms and jargon, and I wear a hard hat and orange vest, but only at home when no one is looking. Me and a few friends get together and we play bridge and we talk about different bridge designs, we all wear hard hats and vests. We "FEEL" that all our secret club meetings will change the world, we "FEEL" that our models and or discussions and our intense visualisations of restored and beautiful bridges will send out vibrations that will fortify and change the city. Surely, all our activity (Shh don't tell anyone, they will think it's silly or persecute us for our beliefs and silly hats) will send out waves and currents that will make the cities bridges safe, we are truly saving lives.
See what nonsense that is.
If you want to do the great work you have to go out and actually do it, you have to work hard, you have to move bricks and steel, and deal with city ordinances, acquire funding, face defeats and set backs, you have to bleed for it, applying the right force to the right objects in the right way, etc.
And the right force is not a make up universal mind energy that transforms reality to match your desires, the abject is not your third eye, and the right application of the forces is not performing dramatic ritual that pantomime the archetypical actions of real workers.
Though all that can help you train your mind and get you focused and teach you some of the skills necessary when you do the real job, none of it is actually doing the work.
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"POSTULATE.
ANY required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object.
(Illustration: I wish to prepare an ounce of Chloride of Gold. I must take the right kind of acid, nitro-hydrochloric and no other, in a vessel which will not break, leak or corrode, in such a manner as will not produce undesirable results, with the necessary quantity of Gold: and so forth. Every change has its own conditions.
In the present state of our knowledge and power some changes are not possible in practice; we cannot cause eclipses, for instance, or transform lead into tin, or create men from mushrooms. But it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature; and the conditions are covered by the above postulate.)"
See, "any change of which that object is capable by nature" that is you have to apply natural ie physical and material causes to achieve the changes you want. Magick is the science that studies the laws of nature and the natural forces and the art of applying those natural laws to achieve a desired effect. That is to say Magick is Science.
More to the point it is science applied to life, not left in some sterile laboratory cut off from the day to day life. Magick is science applied to philosophy to belief and to ethics, that is normative science, applied sceptical methodology to normative concerns and structuring you life style and actions so as to achieve your goal. It is the science of learning about your natural function, via study of your biology, race, culture, social status, your limits and skills, and choosing which experiences to engage and which to remove in order to make yourself in the image of your ambition.
Magick is the science of changing your environment in order to shape yourself, and to change the wider world by expanding your influence and make your ideal into a reality, via practical action knowing and actually applying the right natural forces to the right object, in the right degree and manner to achieve the changes that you Will to occur.
Rituals and such have as their purpose to develop your skills of focus and help you build complex associations in your mind that widen your semantic network and scope of understanding, daily practices that develop discipline or create awareness of the cycles of nature, develop ability to control your behaviour and change your personality in order to dissociate from conditioned biases.
The same as boot-camp is training to make a good soldier, it trains muscles and teaches the mindset of the soldier and the skills you need etc. That is part of using magick is applying forces to yourself, in order to make yourself more effective at directing and applying natural force. For example lifting weights makes you more effective at moving large rocks, or learning math makes you more effective at engineering. But scratching away at numbers does not in and of itself send men to the moon, or design new computers. -
it does seem as though you are defining it, to a degree... but there are holes in your theory, or lack of certain types of application with regard to the great work. i assume you know that though. there is no easy access. it's not a belief system. have you tried the silent approach?