The Great Work - How do you define and live it?
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Seems to me that denying the existence of something is as much an acknowledgement of its existence as saying it does. Because Truth is in the union of opposites, and not in the fragmented polarities that we can only see by looking from one Yetziratic point-of-view at a time.
(oooh, I love how impossible it is to avoid internal contradiction when talking about Truth with words!
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@Froclown said
"consciousness = brain activity
Ideas come from physical matter of the brain are caused by physical matter of the environment."
Actually that is not quite true; if it were, then consciousness would not be necessary as the whole system would be automated. The idea that your awareness is mere causality based on the physical and chemical make-up of your brain is a gross oversimplification that implies that everything we do is purely reflex action, and the subconscious would deal with everything; although it is true that the brain functions by firing neurons in various parts of the brain, in practice we find that the whole is exponentially greater than the sum of its parts.
The mechanistic/materialistic approach to life went out of fashion in the 1870's
Although for the record I am not implying that physical matter is not required, because everything needs a medium in order to manifest, and organic matter is our mode of manifestation.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXYOH5FpnE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
The above link is an excellent description of the differences between Organic Traditional community and modern liberal community.
Taking one of his analogies, he says that the organic community is like the natural forest where many different types of plants and animals co-exist each with it's own role or purpose, while the modern community is like a farmer's field that seeks to control and foster only one type of plant, segregating and killing off all other weeds and pests.
The organic community, with it's strict caste system and it's brutality of survival of the fittest where everyone finds their niche through extreme measure of self assertion and combat without a safety net, expresses the early Dionysus aspect of the previous aeon. While the modern society that aims for softness and comfort, and reduces to equality can be though of as the Father aeon's final overly protective, logical and controlling Apollo form.
In any effect the great work of establishing the law of Thelema. Can be though of as neither the wilderness nor the strictly controlled mono-crop fields. Rather we can think of the Permaculture techniques of organic farming, in which the system is designed to be self regulating. That is the plants and animals are selected for their natural properties and behaviours, and they are placed together in such a way that what one needs the other produces and what one produces the other needs. This way, there are no weeds, the inedible plants will nitrogenate the soil, or feed the animals than produce organic fertiliser. Flowers are planted with crops that will attract pollinating insects and repel pests. The whole system is set up to work with the natural eco system, not in spite of it, growing no plants and keeping no animals than might plague the natural environment.
In this way we combine Dionysus with Apollo while respecting the natural world of Isis, and each part is selected and set to work in a way that benefits the whole. Thus you have "Star in star and system in system" the whole is designed such that it maximises the potential for growth and natural interaction for every part.
That I would say in the Ideal of the great work.
To accomplish this we need to have a large organisation with this goal in mind, and we need to teach there methods not just in framing but to all aspects of society, to bankers, lawyers, merchants, to generals and corporations, to politicians as well as to scientists. We need to as Crowley said work on putting this principle into practice, first teaching it to the abstract fields to study it and refine it to their field and second to have it put into practical application by leaders of industries and professions.
Sitting in the temple staring at the tip of your nose, will not get the ball rolling. I mean how can you attain without practical action, is not the cup of our lady the physical world, and does not the attainment demand selfless total sacrifice of every last drop of blood, giving your all to a filthy, impure thankless world, seething with abomination and unclean fornications, Muddying yourself up with the degeneracy of the world, and having no single drop of hope for getting anything in return.
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I think the idea behind "sitting in a room staring at the tip of your nose" as you put it, can be summed up thus:
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."
Matthew 7:5
And also:"Physician, heal Thyself"
Luke 4:23The idea being that until you have discovered your own Will/Orbit/K&C of the HGA/ whatever; you are in no position to do anything in a co-ordinated manner.
"if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."
Matthew 15:14So, the idea of "sitting about staring at the tip of your nose" is not about some sort of Mañana attitude, at least not for those of us who are actively involved in the Work, meditation is as pragmatic as recycling and conservation work for me, it just works on a different level is all.
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@Dar said
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@Froclown said
"The great work is to establish on earth the kingdom of God. "No. It really isn't.
It's a fantasy that pleases the ego that wants some 'real work' to do so it can feel usefully employed, worthy, needed, and that there is a reason for it's existence that is way lot cooler and suits it far more than the present one it's experiencing but not accepting.
To think that 'the great work is to establish on earth the kingdom of God' - is pure hubris. The kingdom is established. It's been pretty established for the last 4.54 billion years infact.
I think you're over thinking all this completely, Fro."
It always struck me as funny that my avowed goal in life "To perform the great work" basically consists of seeing my own bullshit in order to be completely natural, and anything more than this is mere hubris, and what makes it even funnier is that I am required to jump through all these hoops to get back to the original nature.You have to laugh I suppose
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In lieu of the daily meditation not being posted yet I am posting a few thoughts. I guess it forms something of a response to the question posed in the topic heading.
Monumental systems that purport to define the relationship of the individual to the culture, humanity at large, the planet and the cosmos are monumental distractions, imho. They tend to put me to sleep. I know with some certitude—the result of staring at my nose in a locked room—that any idea I hold as truth is an instance where I am no longer creatively and dynamically engaging my reality.
I am content for the moment with knocking things down. If something resists my efforts to knock it over it gets my provisional respect, at least until I get a little bigger and stronger and finally manage to push it over; the longer it stands the more respect it gets, until it falls, then it's time to move on.
No offense, but whenever I read Froclown's didactic posts about the glorious new world order of Thelema, I have this fantasy about the time when one faction of Thelema will rise up and massacre those other factions that it doesn't agree with. In this regard I am my own best example of why these visions of order are bunk! In the fantasy I'm kind a hoping his faction gets whacked because I love the mess! I find the patchwork nature of reality that one experiences in the field much more comforting than the theoretical fantasies of someone who clearly has not lived.
How do I define and live the Great Work? By getting on with it, even in this totally illogical, chaotic mess of a world. Worrying about how it all fits together just means I sit around arguing on forums like this against ideas which are clearly temporary at best. My advice to myself: enough with the reasons for not working, now it's time to lock the door, sit with an erect spine and stare at the tip of my nose.
Love and Will
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I have to admit, my one reservation about Thelema is that it might one day acquire a "Prophet" or some sort of unifier who will destroy the diversity and simplicity of the philosophy and, taking the pseudo-Nietzschian standpoint transform it into a kind of Spiritual Fascism where anyone who doesn't get with the program and do their "Will" as dictated by the heads of the ruling party, will be summarily put to death or ostracised as "centres of pestilence".
The arguments are fun, the ruminating and the "who's got the biggest ruach (read "Penis") contests" are fun, but the thing is, as you say, to just get on with it, and try not to **** with anybody along the way.
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Yay!!! That was fun!
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I just read all these post and I am going to say whats on my mind. I am not going to quote anyone. I hope this is not a problem.
There is such a thing as the 93 current. Once you experience it you cannot mistake anything else for the 93 current. It has a very distinct "feel" or "taste" .
The 93 current emanates from the Spiritual plane. The Spiritual plane is the A.'.A.'. (The Spiritual plane is pure energy. There is no form and there is no difference made between anything.) So the 93 current comes from the A.'.A.'..
If we allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current, then by definition we are doing our True Will.
Why?
The 93 current is a natural force of the Universe. If one is aligned with the motion of the Universe, one cannot be doing anything but one's True Will.
All of us are striving to be in harmony with the Universe even if we fight this Harmony.
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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Not into??
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Dar said
"... and I suppose members of the A.'.A.'. can shoot lightning bolts out of their arses too?
"Hahaha:) how did you know?
But seriously, I don't think that's possible short of sticking an electrical wire down someones throat and flipping a switch:p I am not volunteering.
The Universe works Harmoniously. This harmony includes life, death, destruction, and formation. We can choose to fight this harmony or we can become a part of this dance.
The 93 current allows you to dance in step with the Universe. The trick is learning to listen and learning to submit to what the Universe tells you. If you choose the path of Balance via the 93 current you declare your willingness to be in balance with the Universe. The Universe will correct you if you sway from this path. If you listen you get back to the business of the Great Work. If you ignore the Universe, the corrections get more severe. We only need to listen and trust. If you believe this there is no longer a need to fear any action you might do. If you do something wrong, the Universe will tell you. You are free to do your True Will;)
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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@Frater MVKDSh said
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If we allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current, then by definition we are doing our True Will.
Why?
The 93 current is a natural force of the Universe. If one is aligned with the motion of the Universe, one cannot be doing anything but one's True Will. "
from the practical point of view, that's the worst thing you could think to do! that's actually a reversal of what one should do! why?
beacuse you - here, now, you (or I) as an individual - have to start from the here_and_now, and that means, you have to determine your specific nature and your specific purpose of your specific individual existence.
~ take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves ~sure, accepting the Law of Thelema, we "allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current".
but it's almost useless tautology to say that.where is your specific place here_and_now, frater? acknowledge that, and go from there!
that current you speak about is not something outside of yourself, not some abstract entity, a 'thing' that we should look out and search to find and etc...(whatever) --- NOSCE TE IPSUM --- know thyself, and allign with the core of thy being! and let the Current take care of itself -
@danica said
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sure, accepting the Law of Thelema, we "allow ourselves to move with the flow of the 93 current".
but it's almost useless tautology to say that."Yes, that's right! And to see it pointed out on this thread is definitely worth the price of admission.
Love and Will
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"where is your specific place here_and_now, frater? acknowledge that, and go from there!
that current you speak about is not something outside of yourself, not some abstract entity, a 'thing' that we should look out and search to find and etc...(whatever) "I dont see the 93 current as abstract. I feel it constantly . It is a reality for me and it impacts my life.
I first felt this sensation two years after I started studying Thelema during my 1st Initiation. I have felt the 93 current constantly since.
I never felt I was special. I believe and know of many people who can "feel" the 93 current in their lives. I think this is just a natural consequence of a Thelemic Initiation created by a Magus and done by a true Adept who can channel the 93 current from the astral to the Aspirant.
This is what happened to me and I am sure happened to others. If we take just one step on this Path we will come to its end. This might take lifetimes, or just one lifetime. Either way there is a True momentum created once we align ourselves with the 93 current. This momentum is created by the 93 current.
This has just been my experience and the experience of others I know who blessed me by sharing their thoughts on this subject.
Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
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@Frater MVKDSh said
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I dont see the 93 current as abstract. I feel it constantly . It is a reality for me and it impacts my life."
saying it's abstract does not mean it is not real (those are not mutually exclusive phenomena).
you seem to completely miss the point of what I was trying to convey. and adding more words to it will not help.
93/93
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"Froclown said: The only way to change the world and achieve the great work is to take direct and practical actions."
The Secret Chiefs are possessed of immense powers, called the "Ophidian Vibrations" which allow them to "insinuate [themselves] into any desired set of circumstances." (MWT, 9:92) These powers allow the Secret Chiefs "to induce a girl to embroider a taperstry, or initiate a political movement to culminate in a world-war; all in pursuit of some plan wholly beyond the purview or the comprehension of the deepest and subtlest thinkers." (MWT, 9:92-93)
You're confused son. It takes one spark to burn down a forest.
See: Recent Arab Spring.
"*Froclown said:*There is no such thing as a field that unites all minds."
I'll assume you are being provocative, but assuming you are not, just because you have not experienced something does not mean it doesn't exist. You're also less likely to experience a phenomena for clutching an idea so tightly. Also, how can anything not be touching? Everything is connected....
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There is no such thing as a current or a spiritual plane or a "Pure energy" or any of this bullshit.
There are Physical actions of matter, that is all. There is gravity, Electro-magnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces. These are all the "forces" that exist. Energy is an expression of the potential motion stored in a system of matter, due to the forces, and forces are merely a the properties of material particles in how they act upon other particles.
There is not the slightest evidence for the existence to such nonsense, outside of paranormal investigation experiments that have always been shown inconclusive often outright fraud and full of methodological errors. The Rhine institute has not found a single true and conclusive case of "ESP".
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Froclown said
"There is no such thing as a current or a spiritual plane or a "Pure energy" or any of this bullshit.
There are Physical actions of matter, that is all. There is gravity, Electro-magnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces. These are all the "forces" that exist. Energy is an expression of the potential motion stored in a system of matter, due to the forces, and forces are merely a the properties of material particles in how they act upon other particles.
There is not the slightest evidence for the existence to such nonsense, outside of paranormal investigation experiments that have always been shown inconclusive often outright fraud and full of methodological errors. The Rhine institute has not found a single true and conclusive case of "ESP"."
Thats what they told Copernicus when he first tried to explain that the Earth revolved around the Sun
Reading what you post makes me confused as to why you are even on this site.
Love is the law, love under will.