Too much, too soon?
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"Even such small light as he or she has received has the potential to be revolutionary, and I think the individual senses that and tries to fulfil that original impulse unless something or someone else demonstrates a better plan for doing so or demonstrates that it is impossible or fatal (in which case, what's the point?)."
I work in psychiatry and I always stress to patients that overcoming an illness and the increased understanding that results are not the same as being suitably trained or 'enlightened' for want of a better word. People learn lots of good things about themselves while recovering, but some experience a temptation to 'free the others' as you put it, by immediately becoming self-appointed counselors. Whatever their potential, I wouldn't call someone's recovery complete until they address that notion.
I took up my profession over 20 years ago as a care assistant in an asylum. Insofar as the experience of being a Neophyte is comparable, I was pleased to spend the early days forming positive personal relationships with the patients. It took a lot of time and orthodox training, failure and learning before I found myself in charge, or at least responsibly directing them.
@Edward Mason said
"One of the things that surprises people about doing magick is that it gets results. "
Well, yes!
I didn't and will continue to the best of my ability not to presume upon certainties. The reason I didn't presume anything is that I have a very old-fashioned UK Christian upbringing that always appears when I try something new. My grandmother put an idea in orbit around my conscience, saying that God will not give us a sign. 
@Frater 639 said
"
Very true! Fascination can be a problem. Balance is key. Laughing helps a lot. 
"I do laugh a lot as it happens! Some of these experiences have made me giggle. When life gets serious, it really is the best medicine!
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"I work in psychiatry and I always stress to patients that overcoming an illness and the increased understanding that results are not the same as being suitably trained or 'enlightened' for want of a better word. People learn lots of good things about themselves while recovering, but some experience a temptation to 'free the others' as you put it, by immediately becoming self-appointed counselors. Whatever their potential, I wouldn't call someone's recovery complete until they address that notion."
My apologies. This is a hot button for me. But no one is talking about psychiatric patients currently.
We are talking about normal individuals having normal enlightenment experiences.
That some call them abnormal and try to prevent! prevent! prevent! is the very heart of the problem.
Your thoughts?
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@Aegis55 said
"You have defined the upper end of the curve as abnormal instead of exceptional."
Well, I think the dictionaries beat the rest of us to defining abnormal as part of the tails of a bell-curve -- the bell curve being known as a "normal distrubition", and the distance from the mean being measured in number of "standard deviations" from the mean.
"ab·nor·mal
[ab-nawr-muhl] Show IPA
–adjectivenot normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard: abnormal powers of concentration; an abnormal amount of snow; abnormal behavior."
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It may be a little off topic:
After doing some biofeedback and neurotherapy research, according to one source, people in the "normal brain function" range (via EEG readings) are only 40%.
That is, what is determined the "normal" functioning range, which has to do with functionality in today's "normal" society.
(Obviously, EEG readings can't really nail down chemical synapses, individual receptors, etc. Although, they do provide general frequencies and electrical activity that correspond with general "abnormal" behavior...which can be integrated into already established psychological methods.)
Yeah, that's how we know we're linked with others. We collectively contribute to the "normal" standards, or, at least, one would hope? I'm not advocating that the standards are right or wrong, but they do exist in the medical community...
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What did you get yourself into, Marlowe? Your question seemed innocent enough!
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@Takamba said
"My question is, who here equates "abnormal" with "bad?""
That is so interesting that you brought this up, as I was thinking this earlier today...before I even read this thread.
I was thinking: generally people that practice ceremonial magick are probably considered "abnormal" (i.e. they all fit into a category of "people who practice ceremonial magick" which differs from standard behavior). What is the general opinion of this category in the medical community?
Takamba, I think we'd be officially called "bonkers". But, I'd never equate that with "bad".
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@Aegis55 said
"You have defined the upper end of the curve as abnormal instead of exceptional."
@Aegis55 said
"You just automatically thought it.
You equate it."
You see I work in psychiatry and it makes you unhappy... but you presume to know what I'm thinking? Isn't that a tad "Dear Pot, Yours sincerely, Kettle?"
I haven't defined anything... or anyone, I was making a point about a little knowledge and how I found my way very gently within a new frame of learning that most people stay away from. I was saying, clearly I thought, about not presuming one's own understanding is applicable to others, though there is value in sharing and finding those who have knowledge to offer. One of the first things I said was that I'm looking for help and good advice.
If you want to talk about exceptional, I work in a secure institution, caring for highly dangerous individuals. On top of that, I laugh while I'm working, I forget my job when I go home and I'm trying to get started with magick. I'm quite sure some of my colleagues would blink at the idea. If I were to touch this end of the bell-curve, the point would be sharp enough to cut, but it doesn't trouble me.
Psychiatry is a branch of medicine and as such deals with illness. As a service though, it deals with people, rather than say, a broken bone or a diseased lung (with all respect to sufferers and medics alike). This means it should factor in culture norms, individual choices and personal experiences. Its tricky in that the illness may well manifest and map itself onto someone's personality, which is a challenging and painstaking problem to address. People like me would prefer you to live your own life, rather than sacrifice it to social conformity. We do show concern when it hurts you though, or risks hurting other people when we believe on very ordinary grounds that you'd rather it didn't.
Treatment is a very intimate and sensitive area that operates through dialogue, empathy and taking risks. What's abnormal and what's exceptional are certainly different and both need to be understood. Abnormal is bad when it hinders what's exceptional. Exceptional is usually precious. I wouldn't use abnormality as a pathological concept unless it was volunteered for discussion and in such cases, its the patient who explores the concept as it relates to them. Its usually a negative term and my first thought would be to give it a sense of perspective. Its negative social concepts that need normalizing, not people per se.
@Aegis55 said
"When I come back.
I'll be suited up."
I'll say again, I came looking for knowledge, not ignorance. I abandoned stereotypical images a long time ago. I hope one day you'll be able to do the same.
@Frater 639 said
"What did you get yourself into, Marlowe? Your question seemed innocent enough!
"I'm not sure. My question is innocent and so am I. I'm not interested in getting into an argument thats irrelevant to my query, but I won't suffer my good character being assaulted on a first post.
And if anyone's still interested in my original question, I'd love to hear from you.
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Ahem...
For clarification for those who seem to require it constantly...
You have accepted his premise like a plague on your island.
"What did I say wrong?"
"I didn't say that."
You either trust this dog's nose, or you don't.
Period.
But that's up to you and your universe. I've spent a long time kicking the ass of those automatic assumptions out of my life and off my island. You make them work for their verbal power over you. You don't just...
Nevermind... That's what I mean.
It passes over me and around me, but I am not a part of this kind of thinking. It will not take root in me.
I touch my finger to the ground.
I am a pillar in the temple of my God.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Love is the law; love under will. -
Tell me, Doc. How would you interpret it if someone sent you this simple poem with some Cajun dialect in it?
Warrior Gene
Oh EuGEEEEENE....!
Hey, Eugene...!
Where are you, Genie?
Everybody's lookin' for you,
Talkin' 'bout activatin' you,
You really ought to get in there,
And speak for yo-self.Captain A?
Captain Who?
Captain A?
Captain Who?
Who you trying to train, che'?
Careful, might reveal a thing or two.Send them Eff'Kin cops,
Cap'm A don't care.
Hell, dey need to know.
Beast's a stirrin' agin'.
Hell, the kids are doin' it.
Don't know what dey found.
Know they wanna be free though.Callin' it up from deep.
Want the truth to prevail.
Gonna uncover it all.
They wanna do it right
With a passion we ain't
Seen in a while.But can they?
Do they know the stories?
No.
Do they know the math?
Yes.
Do they know the tests?
No.
Do they know the tradition?
No.
They just wakin' on up.
Managin' it wit dey high
And low.
Powerful angry though.
Ain't dat de story?
Ain't dat de tale?Careful.
What you gon' say?I gon' say, "First you make de roux..
And I'm tellin' you,
'Cause I don't wanna have to tell a foo'.
What else is the' to do?" -
@Marlowe said
"During today's meditation, I was rather taken aback to find myself touched by each of the angels with their various instruments, particularly that Michael pierced me - albeit painlessly - with his sword. The others, thankfully, were entirely gentle. During a later physical ritual, I saw all four angels leaning in towards me"
For starters, Michael is associated with the element of fire so he should be holding a fiery wand. Raphael is air so he should be holding the sword.
I would be curious to hear how your patients in the asylum respond to your steady practise of the LBRP. Are they more calm, less volatile, or are they responding more aggressively and unpredictably toward you?
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Thankyou, this is the kind of thing I want to learn about. Cicero's Essential Golden Dawn has them portrayed as I described them. My associations from Tarot work would have them the way you describe. I know something about elements but not much about angels and while I've bought a few standard texts, the experience of others is also important. I would like to start using the Middle Pillar exercise, but I feel I have to be patient in laying my foundations. While experimenting and building are important, I need to know what I'm getting right before I start tweaking or adding anything. I find discipline is invaluable in early practise in all walks of life.
From looking on different forums, I hear bits of information about when elemental associations are the way I understand them and others where they apparently differ. I have to begin somewhere with what I'm visualising, but I don't want to use my uneducated preferences to visualise incorrectly. I'm also cautious about how things develop if my basic images are at fault.
As regards work, some of our clients are so unstable that I wouldn't put any changes down to my use of the ritual at this stage. I have a very credible history in terms of cooling people out, but I'll be relying on my orthodox methods for the time being. We do use terms such as 'psychic assaults' in the psychotherapy field, which has correspondences with magick, but rather concretely as interpersonal exchanges rather than transmissions of energy. Projection is another connecting concept.
I'm keeping a diary of course and will be examining workplace experiences for anything of clear significance, such as any feelings similar to those I have while performing the LBRP. My hands get warm sometimes, but that might be adrenaline. If I find something definite, I promise I'll let you know. What is worth noting in terms of your question is that the settled members of the ward don't seem to have been stimulated by it. More than anything, I've found its a great exercise for detoxing after a hard day. I haven't slept so soundly and consistently for a long time.
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I personally found the mental health services to make things clear to some degree.
I am a paranoid schizophrenic in accordance to their pigeon holing technique.
So that i take a lot off medication, but and this is strange i suspect, to keep a blessing from turning into a curse.
I have diminished real feeling for the world but i do find that some things are very much as possible as originally.
I did magickal work before the diagnosis and will not be stopped by it