Thelema, liberalism and the organic community state
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May I say that your attempt to explore both the positive and negative potential of both sides of your debate makes this post stronger than what I've read from you before.
However, I still think one big weakness of your essay is that it presupposes isolated tribes of craftsmen that exist before trade and travel mixed culture. When the reality is that humans have been mixing cultures and trading and traveling for as long as there have been craftsmen.
If you try taking the same approach to cultural mixing and isolating forces, analyzing them each as necessary forces with, again, positive and negative potential, I think your argument could improve greatly.
Balance is the foundation of strength.
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Here I quote Crowley
“The many religions of the world have all lost their power to guide chiefly because the development of means of transport and of international commerce have convinced the educated that any one religion is about as good or bad as another for the purposes of social discipline, and that none has any validity from the standpoint of actual fact, or historical or philosophical truth.
The remedy is evidently to be found only in one way. There must be found a formula based upon absolute common sense, without one trammel of theological theory or dogma, a formula to which no man of intelligence can refuse assent, and which at the same time affords an absolute sanction for all laws of conduct, social and political no less than individual, so that the right or wrong of any isolated or concerted action can be determined with mathematical accuracy by any trained observer, entirely irrespective of his personal idiosyncrasies.
This formula is: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”
Taking a note here of "without one trammel of theological theory"
Also what he means here is large scale mixing of cultures, not a rare event than some strange and mysterious merchants from the far east visit the city. And this subsequent questioning of theological foundations of social values, is exactly what Nietzsche meant by the atheists and intellectuals murdered God.
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Well, I was just giving you some feedback (which you can of course, take or leave) not trying to engage in a debate. Carry on!
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Here let me simplify.
Thelema makes no claims to save poor wretches from their own weakness, or their personal identification with weakness, their fretting over sinful natures, their lack or courage. Nor does it claim to set everyone equal, to release anyone from longing, from strife, or to ease the suffering of the hurt. What it does do is calls to the elite few and strengthens their resolve and master morality against the slave morals of the liberal modernists, to restore quality over quantity. And reestablish the aristocratic hierarchy of the organic state, the traditional world of evola, guenon, Plato and aristotle, under a new formula of solar phallicism to restore resolve of the master morality and personal sense of power and authority against the forces of nihilism, equality, and Christian slave values in all their forms. Even unto restoring christianity itself to a white school, purging it of it's slave perspective and establishing Jesus not as a vicarious sacrificial martyr but as the solar principle, expression of the death rebirth cycles, the formula of his era.
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- Then the priest fell into a deep trance or swoon, & said unto the Queen of Heaven; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law!
34. But she said: the ordeals I write not: the rituals shall be half known and half concealed: the Law is for all.
35. This that thou writest is the threefold book of Law.Here is where that quote is from.
Clearly this deals with the ordeals and rituals, not for whom the law applies, or to whom it will benefit etc.This is to say, the Law is to be applied to the ordeals, the rituals know and unknown, and that law is this very book.
The proper way to write it as you express it to mean, is "the law applies to everyone"
This is not what is written, in fact there is a list followed by a colon, and then words the law is for all.The proper way to read is that the clause following a color applies directly to what proceeds the colon, ie the law exists in respects to all of these listed.
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"The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value!"
So you can't make a fundamentalist case based on the punctuation.
Verse 34 originally had quite different punctuation (though it did still have that colon): "But she said the ordeals I write not the rituals shall be half known and half concealed: the Law is for all."
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@Jim Eshelman said
""The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value!"
So you can't make a fundamentalist case based on the punctuation.
Verse 34 originally had quite different punctuation (though it did still have that colon): "But she said the ordeals I write not the rituals shall be half known and half concealed: the Law is for all.""
To be simple, ordeals and rituals are one thing: The Law is another thing.
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Besides the law is available to anyone who would accept it, and it is the law of the strong nietzsches master morality, it is there for anyone who would renounce slave morality and take up elitism, aristocracy, pride, courage, and the law of battle, ie survival of the fittest or might is right.
Who would denounce so called morality, and use reason and discipline and strength to express ones power over others and over oneself. To hold oneself to the highest standards of scientific test, and to discipline one perceptive and cognitive apparatus against confirmation bias, trust in feelings rather than objective evidence, and control of ones behavior to prevent acting on emotional rather than evidence, reason and strategic planning.
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@Froclown said
"Besides the law is available to anyone who would accept it, and it is the law of the strong nietzsches master morality, it is there for anyone who would renounce slave morality and take up elitism, aristocracy, pride, courage, and the law of battle, ie survival of the fittest or might is right.
Who would denounce so called morality, and use reason and discipline and strength to express ones power over others and over oneself. To hold oneself to the highest standards of scientific test, and to discipline one perceptive and cognitive apparatus against confirmation bias, trust in feelings rather than objective evidence, and control of ones behavior to prevent acting on emotional rather than evidence, reason and strategic planning."
There's a difference between a Law and waxing philosophic over that law (as you do so well). A Law does not need your opinion or approval to be. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law (know it or not, that law is upon all). And there are a myriad ways to accept a Law and to promulgate a Law, yours is only one way and I don't find it all that effective for you because you seem to chatter over much rather than DO.
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So it's more than just Geburah in Yetzirah?
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No, here is what most of you are saying.
Do what thou wilt, is the law, so You or some authority has to let me do my will, I have to let you do your will, everyone is entitled to do their own will.
That is not what it means, it's not an entitlement, you are not entitled to do your will by others permission, and you are not called by some divine authority to not interfere or allow others to do their will, or in any way step down or out of the way, or to even aid them on their will.
Rather it is a call to each one of us to look within and say, when have I stepped down, when have I but my interests second, when have I acted in a way that was not fulfilling to my purposes, either out of ignorance, compassion, fear, or just unquestioning loyalty to any principle. When might I have allowed others to walk over my interests in the name of democracy I just went along with the majority vote, in the name of fairness and compassion I suffered in order to let the weaker get ahead. When have I in the fulfillment of one interest or desire, acted in a way that frustrated my other desires, even my more valued goals for the sake of that lesser valued desire.
When did I put the interests of the lower, the weaker, the mob, the law, morality, the good cause, gods cause, etc. Before my own cause.
And Thelema says, no do not do that. Do what thou wilt.
See the first paragraph of Max Stirner "The Ego and Its Own"
www.lsr-projekt.de/poly/enee.html#all
And no, it is no objection to point to the organic state as a cause alien to ones own.
For the organic state is an egoist type of system, where one serves for egoist reasons, the kings rule over the slaves for their own purposes, and ultimately by suiting the tasks and lifestyle to the need of the individual it makes them more productive, less resentful and rebellious, this benefits the kings ego goals. And the slaves by voluntarily banding together under the community and serving the state it is to benefit their own goals and need for security and disciplined order. -
@Froclown said
"No, here is what most of you are saying.
Do what thou wilt, is the law, so You or some authority has to let me do my will, I have to let you do your will, everyone is entitled to do their own will.
That is not what it means, it's not an entitlement, you are not entitled to do your will by others permission, and you are not called by some divine authority to not interfere or allow others to do their will, or in any way step down or out of the way, or to even aid them on their will.
Rather it is a call to each one of us to look within and say, when have I stepped down, when have I but my interests second, when have I acted in a way that was not fulfilling to my purposes, either out of ignorance, compassion, fear, or just unquestioning loyalty to any principle. When might I have allowed others to walk over my interests in the name of democracy I just went along with the majority vote, in the name of fairness and compassion I suffered in order to let the weaker get ahead. When have I in the fulfillment of one interest or desire, acted in a way that frustrated my other desires, even my more valued goals for the sake of that lesser valued desire.
When did I put the interests of the lower, the weaker, the mob, the law, morality, the good cause, gods cause, etc. Before my own cause.
And Thelema says, no do not do that. Do what thou wilt.
See the first paragraph of Max Stirner "The Ego and Its Own""
When did you put all that in my mouth? I never said any such thing.
Are you attempting to have my Will and your will conflict? Then I say you are far from DOing your Will. Fortunately oxygen is plentiful, otherwise I'd consider your use of it a threat to my supply. But that is not so.
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In any event doing your will is not something you are granted or entitled to, it not a freedom you grand or entitle others to have. It is a degree of liberty that you must rise up and take for yourself, the foundation of the law is not on a natural order, gods will, or some such thing, is rests solely on your willingess to fight and kill for it.
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@Froclown said
"In any event doing your will is not something you are granted or entitled to, it not a freedom you grand or entitle others to have. It is a degree of liberty that you must rise up and take for yourself, the foundation of the law is not on a natural order, gods will, or some such thing, is rests solely on your willingess to fight and kill for it."
The Law is a natural law, it is exemplified within all of Nature. Just because your mind can't grasp the simplicity, that doesn't make it so. And all your caterwauling about forcing people to learn the Law is very much against the Law - so good luck with that.
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Yes the law is in nature, in nature there is no compassion, no pity, no democratic mob rule, no animal bends to another unless it is by fear and violence. Natures is kill or be killed at every point. And every animal is struggling its own survival, trampling over the nonexistent "rights" or every other animal.
That is the law.
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@Froclown said
"Yes the law is in nature, in nature there is no compassion, no pity, no democratic mob rule, no animal bends to another unless it is by fear and violence. Natures is kill or be killed at every point. And every animal is struggling its own survival, trampling over the nonexistent "rights" or every other animal.
That is the law."
Of which I am agreeing with. But your insistence of declaring your intention to trample over the weak suggests you are not doing your Will. You wouldn't even see the weak if you were busily Doing anything besides looking for the weak. Trample as you must and STFU (shhhhh)
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It is important also to counter democracy, egalitarianism, modernism, postmodernism, liberal humanism, and all other slave values that produce laws and moral opinions and fortify the mob to riot and rule over the individual will. We have whole armed millitias and many institutions dedicated to repressing the Will and action of the higher men, strongly dedicated mobs of slaves persistent against the ubermensche and striving to create the conditions that support the last man, and to thwart the necessary conditions from which arise the noble spirit of the aristocrats.
Thelema should not be one of these.
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@Froclown said
"It is important also to counter democracy, egalitarianism, modernism, postmodernism, liberal humanism, and all other slave values that produce laws and moral opinions and fortify the mob to riot and rule over the individual will. We have whole armed millitias and many institutions dedicated to repressing the Will and action of the higher men, strongly dedicated mobs of slaves persistent against the ubermensche and striving to create the conditions that support the last man, and to thwart the necessary conditions from which arise the noble spirit of the aristocrats.
Thelema should not be one of these."
Thelema is not one of them (unless one confuses bodies and individuals as being Thelema).
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Well I notice allot of hippie, liberalism, humanism, peace and love, flowers and butterflies, new Age communists, trying to present Thelema like it is some variation of sacchrine Christianity, seeking to promote so called tolerance and the notion that all beliefs are equally true and everyone has a duty to let everyone else act like irresponsible children and deluded fool who thing the world owes the individual a right to do ones will, and all that progressive entitlement nonsense.
But I only remark a few like Keith418 and Kerry Bolton and Jim Crow who are presenting Thelema as a traditionalist and restoration of master mentality, where which is a call to rise up and take your Will, not a call to demand and whine for entitlements to it. As well as a system of setting up a thelemic social order that promotes rule of the individual egoist master mentality over the mob of bass masses. As Both Crowley and the book of the law describe it.