Thelema, liberalism and the organic community state
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@Jim Eshelman said
""The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value!"
So you can't make a fundamentalist case based on the punctuation.
Verse 34 originally had quite different punctuation (though it did still have that colon): "But she said the ordeals I write not the rituals shall be half known and half concealed: the Law is for all.""
To be simple, ordeals and rituals are one thing: The Law is another thing.
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Besides the law is available to anyone who would accept it, and it is the law of the strong nietzsches master morality, it is there for anyone who would renounce slave morality and take up elitism, aristocracy, pride, courage, and the law of battle, ie survival of the fittest or might is right.
Who would denounce so called morality, and use reason and discipline and strength to express ones power over others and over oneself. To hold oneself to the highest standards of scientific test, and to discipline one perceptive and cognitive apparatus against confirmation bias, trust in feelings rather than objective evidence, and control of ones behavior to prevent acting on emotional rather than evidence, reason and strategic planning.
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@Froclown said
"Besides the law is available to anyone who would accept it, and it is the law of the strong nietzsches master morality, it is there for anyone who would renounce slave morality and take up elitism, aristocracy, pride, courage, and the law of battle, ie survival of the fittest or might is right.
Who would denounce so called morality, and use reason and discipline and strength to express ones power over others and over oneself. To hold oneself to the highest standards of scientific test, and to discipline one perceptive and cognitive apparatus against confirmation bias, trust in feelings rather than objective evidence, and control of ones behavior to prevent acting on emotional rather than evidence, reason and strategic planning."
There's a difference between a Law and waxing philosophic over that law (as you do so well). A Law does not need your opinion or approval to be. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law (know it or not, that law is upon all). And there are a myriad ways to accept a Law and to promulgate a Law, yours is only one way and I don't find it all that effective for you because you seem to chatter over much rather than DO.
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So it's more than just Geburah in Yetzirah?
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No, here is what most of you are saying.
Do what thou wilt, is the law, so You or some authority has to let me do my will, I have to let you do your will, everyone is entitled to do their own will.
That is not what it means, it's not an entitlement, you are not entitled to do your will by others permission, and you are not called by some divine authority to not interfere or allow others to do their will, or in any way step down or out of the way, or to even aid them on their will.
Rather it is a call to each one of us to look within and say, when have I stepped down, when have I but my interests second, when have I acted in a way that was not fulfilling to my purposes, either out of ignorance, compassion, fear, or just unquestioning loyalty to any principle. When might I have allowed others to walk over my interests in the name of democracy I just went along with the majority vote, in the name of fairness and compassion I suffered in order to let the weaker get ahead. When have I in the fulfillment of one interest or desire, acted in a way that frustrated my other desires, even my more valued goals for the sake of that lesser valued desire.
When did I put the interests of the lower, the weaker, the mob, the law, morality, the good cause, gods cause, etc. Before my own cause.
And Thelema says, no do not do that. Do what thou wilt.
See the first paragraph of Max Stirner "The Ego and Its Own"
www.lsr-projekt.de/poly/enee.html#all
And no, it is no objection to point to the organic state as a cause alien to ones own.
For the organic state is an egoist type of system, where one serves for egoist reasons, the kings rule over the slaves for their own purposes, and ultimately by suiting the tasks and lifestyle to the need of the individual it makes them more productive, less resentful and rebellious, this benefits the kings ego goals. And the slaves by voluntarily banding together under the community and serving the state it is to benefit their own goals and need for security and disciplined order. -
@Froclown said
"No, here is what most of you are saying.
Do what thou wilt, is the law, so You or some authority has to let me do my will, I have to let you do your will, everyone is entitled to do their own will.
That is not what it means, it's not an entitlement, you are not entitled to do your will by others permission, and you are not called by some divine authority to not interfere or allow others to do their will, or in any way step down or out of the way, or to even aid them on their will.
Rather it is a call to each one of us to look within and say, when have I stepped down, when have I but my interests second, when have I acted in a way that was not fulfilling to my purposes, either out of ignorance, compassion, fear, or just unquestioning loyalty to any principle. When might I have allowed others to walk over my interests in the name of democracy I just went along with the majority vote, in the name of fairness and compassion I suffered in order to let the weaker get ahead. When have I in the fulfillment of one interest or desire, acted in a way that frustrated my other desires, even my more valued goals for the sake of that lesser valued desire.
When did I put the interests of the lower, the weaker, the mob, the law, morality, the good cause, gods cause, etc. Before my own cause.
And Thelema says, no do not do that. Do what thou wilt.
See the first paragraph of Max Stirner "The Ego and Its Own""
When did you put all that in my mouth? I never said any such thing.
Are you attempting to have my Will and your will conflict? Then I say you are far from DOing your Will. Fortunately oxygen is plentiful, otherwise I'd consider your use of it a threat to my supply. But that is not so.
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In any event doing your will is not something you are granted or entitled to, it not a freedom you grand or entitle others to have. It is a degree of liberty that you must rise up and take for yourself, the foundation of the law is not on a natural order, gods will, or some such thing, is rests solely on your willingess to fight and kill for it.
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@Froclown said
"In any event doing your will is not something you are granted or entitled to, it not a freedom you grand or entitle others to have. It is a degree of liberty that you must rise up and take for yourself, the foundation of the law is not on a natural order, gods will, or some such thing, is rests solely on your willingess to fight and kill for it."
The Law is a natural law, it is exemplified within all of Nature. Just because your mind can't grasp the simplicity, that doesn't make it so. And all your caterwauling about forcing people to learn the Law is very much against the Law - so good luck with that.
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Yes the law is in nature, in nature there is no compassion, no pity, no democratic mob rule, no animal bends to another unless it is by fear and violence. Natures is kill or be killed at every point. And every animal is struggling its own survival, trampling over the nonexistent "rights" or every other animal.
That is the law.
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@Froclown said
"Yes the law is in nature, in nature there is no compassion, no pity, no democratic mob rule, no animal bends to another unless it is by fear and violence. Natures is kill or be killed at every point. And every animal is struggling its own survival, trampling over the nonexistent "rights" or every other animal.
That is the law."
Of which I am agreeing with. But your insistence of declaring your intention to trample over the weak suggests you are not doing your Will. You wouldn't even see the weak if you were busily Doing anything besides looking for the weak. Trample as you must and STFU (shhhhh)
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It is important also to counter democracy, egalitarianism, modernism, postmodernism, liberal humanism, and all other slave values that produce laws and moral opinions and fortify the mob to riot and rule over the individual will. We have whole armed millitias and many institutions dedicated to repressing the Will and action of the higher men, strongly dedicated mobs of slaves persistent against the ubermensche and striving to create the conditions that support the last man, and to thwart the necessary conditions from which arise the noble spirit of the aristocrats.
Thelema should not be one of these.
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@Froclown said
"It is important also to counter democracy, egalitarianism, modernism, postmodernism, liberal humanism, and all other slave values that produce laws and moral opinions and fortify the mob to riot and rule over the individual will. We have whole armed millitias and many institutions dedicated to repressing the Will and action of the higher men, strongly dedicated mobs of slaves persistent against the ubermensche and striving to create the conditions that support the last man, and to thwart the necessary conditions from which arise the noble spirit of the aristocrats.
Thelema should not be one of these."
Thelema is not one of them (unless one confuses bodies and individuals as being Thelema).
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Well I notice allot of hippie, liberalism, humanism, peace and love, flowers and butterflies, new Age communists, trying to present Thelema like it is some variation of sacchrine Christianity, seeking to promote so called tolerance and the notion that all beliefs are equally true and everyone has a duty to let everyone else act like irresponsible children and deluded fool who thing the world owes the individual a right to do ones will, and all that progressive entitlement nonsense.
But I only remark a few like Keith418 and Kerry Bolton and Jim Crow who are presenting Thelema as a traditionalist and restoration of master mentality, where which is a call to rise up and take your Will, not a call to demand and whine for entitlements to it. As well as a system of setting up a thelemic social order that promotes rule of the individual egoist master mentality over the mob of bass masses. As Both Crowley and the book of the law describe it.
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It's my cat's true will to be very cuddly. I don't think he has a hippie complex.
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I think what you're describing should be referred to as Fascism, froclown.
And all is at it were because "being" expresses itself through nature so,
and all the things you loathe are expressions of this collective being moving through time.
You want to steer the ship but you're just a cell.
You're vision, while utopian, will never come to pass.
There's nothing you can do to make it so.
Not even repeating yourself on an internet forum.
You'd do much better to amass wealth through hard work and "pour gold" on theleme, or write a story that utilizes your ideal vision and see what kind of crowd it attracts.
And then all you clones can get together and wax poetic about your perfect "thelemic" society and watch it never come to pass. -
Here are some links to the political and social platform that crowely supported
mildcolonialboy.wordpress.com/category/anti-egalitarianism
Traditinal conservative toryism.
Though he also on the bases of the book of the law offers some programs to adopt these traditions for modern times, especially the modern diabelief of christian superstitiom as a divine right foundation to monarchy, replacing it with a scientific illuminism methid of initiating rulers and nobility, as well as holding them up to practical ability to rule.
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I'm an individualist anarchist/agorist myself, and I like what Paul Gottfried says.
However, I think the society you envision, if it is to endure, will arise organically.
That is, without it being sought after and imposed upon others.That's what I mean when I say your vision of a hierarchical society sounds fascist. Too topdown. Too forced.
Anyway, I doubt we will ever get to that point. I envision governments collapsing and micro-states popping up in the aftermath,
each with their own rule of law, attracting like. Think Temporary Autonomous Zones a la Hakim Bey. I just want to see the world burn really and
I seem to be getting my wish it seems when I watch Al-Jazeera!Reminds me of a line from Watchmen.
Night Owl: What happened to the American Dream?
Comedian: It came true.All these piss ant 3rd generation welfare titsuckers bashing in windows to clean out iPods and Nike runners cuz it's their dream to own and accumulate material goods.
Then what?