contemporary Black Brothers
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Froclown needs no words from us, nor books -he needs his own personal experience. that's all. (just that
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that, and - Love. lots lots of love to receive, to open his heart up. -
What part of you must always deny your own experience and accept Only data of science ant nothing else, do you not understand.
That no matter what your experiences are expressions of the physical brain. The stronger your brain demands that certainty the stronger you must doubt it. always deny yourself before data.
Any experience I have had either has a natural, physical cause, or I just don't know what that natural physical cause is, and so I don't as yet have an explanation.
That is what science is, either you know the physical cause backed by data, or you suspend all belief about it until you find a physical hypothesis that is subject to test, and either test it, or hold it up to professional evidence from other experiments.
You do not concoct some half baked idiotic spiritual nonsense to rationalize that experience.
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"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. ~Abraham Lincoln
There is an objective reality out there, but we view it through the spectacles of our beliefs, attitudes, and values. ~David G. Myers, Social Psychology
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion. ~Democritus
To treat your facts with imagination is one thing, but to imagine your facts is another. ~John Burroughs
Listening to both sides of a story will convince you that there is more to a story than both sides. ~Frank Tyger
All the mind's activity is easy if it is not subjected to reality. ~Marcel Proust
The human understanding is like a false mirror, which, receiving rays irregularly, distorts and discolors the nature of things by mingling its own nature with it. ~Francis Bacon
How reluctantly the mind consents to reality! ~Norman Douglas
I believe in a real, physical world. I figure if the world existed only in my mind, it would pay more attention to me. ~Robert Brault"
words...words....words
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@Froclown said
"What part of you must always deny your own experience and accept Only data of science ant nothing else, do you not understand.
That no matter what your experiences are expressions of the physical brain. The stronger your brain demands that certainty the stronger you must doubt it. always deny yourself before data.
Any experience I have had either has a natural, physical cause, or I just don't know what that natural physical cause is, and so I don't as yet have an explanation.
That is what science is, either you know the physical cause backed by data, or you suspend all belief about it until you find a physical hypothesis that is subject to test, and either test it, or hold it up to professional evidence from other experiments.
You do not concoct some half baked idiotic spiritual nonsense to rationalize that experience."
we do love you, you know? (I'm sure you don't feel it
, but maybe you know it...)
otherwise we wouldn't spend so much time (and cyber-space) speaking to you.try to feel it! as an experiment, of course. but just feel it, not judge on it, analyse it etc.
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@Shadonis said
"words...words....words"
Shadonis, your quoting Hamlet, how appropriate!
@danica said
"Froclown needs no words from us, nor books -he needs his own personal experience. that's all. (just that
)
that, and - Love. lots lots of love to receive, to open his heart up."Actually, I'm not aiming my words at Froclown. I stopped doing that awhile back. But this idea about the Black Brothers was so interesting it sucked me back into a topic, that is, as it always tends to be when he gets involved, so much about him!
Think about it. Even before he can lay claim to any experience of the Abyss and what is beyond it he has already worked out what it is to within an inch of its life! This has got to be protective—a circular set of ideas that are immune, at least in his own mind, to criticism or doubt. He is safe in that tower he has built for himself, or which he is renting from someone else, hard to say which.
As for the love? Sure why not.
After all, I'm a hippie!Love and Will
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GROUP HUG!
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
"GROUP HUG!
Love and Will"
I like the way you think,
It is Friday after all,
And I do believe it is my favorite feast day.....
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@Froclown said
"...always deny yourself before data....
...either you know the physical cause backed by data, or you suspend all belief about it until you find a physical hypothesis that is subject to test, and either test it, or hold it up to professional evidence from other experiments. "The problem is: you have to rely on someone else's data! What happens when professional science turns out to be just as human as any other endeavour? When it's discovered that ideology/ego/belief/fantasy driven science has corrupted the data and interpretation to the core? Never mind political influences! Ultimately, you have to do the experiments yourself if you really want to know. Until then (and even so), you simply don't.
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"Ultimately, you have to do the experiments yourself if you really want to know."
Thanks. Well said. I wholeheartedly concur.
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No scientists publish what they did and their actual data form instruments.
And if you question it, you can look at the set up and method and see where some variable might have allowed some other explanation, and you can redo the experiment, accounting for that variable.
Science is not opinion in any way. It collects objective data.
I do not understand why you dint understand you did not exist before you were born, will stop existing when you die, your Brian is a computer that created a virtual representation of the world relative to the effects of physical events son your body, your body is made of the physical stuff you eat and nothing else. Before you where born, you were the planes and meat your mother ate, that her body shaped into you like a potter shapes clay.
When the pot breaks is returns to the earth, when your body breaks it returns to the soil.
And there is no other world, inside your jar of a head is brain goo, that like computer Chips reacts in complex ways to inputs and produces outputs in body movements.
That is reality, the virtual mind is colors, shapes, smells, tastes, thoughts, feelings, etc are just stimulaions of parts of the Brain.
The virtual mind, the so called inner world is all false, illusion, lies, symbols. The computer is your brain the video game is just software, busing of electricity In the chips, and the virtual world is really just colored dots on the tv screen. Like wise astral planes are just colored dots in the brain.
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Crowley believed he was the reincarnation of Eliphas Levi. He couldn't prove it to anyone but himself but he believed his Science proved it to him. The sun is the center of our solar system, man's science took a very long time to figure that one out. Froclown relies (falsely) on autocorrect, he hasn't the science to figure out how to turn it off. Likewise, he thinks "like wise" is the correct usage.
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@JNV33 said
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@Froclown said
"Science is not opinion in any way. It collects objective data. "I appreciate your idealism. But for someone so enamoured with materialism and objectivity, you sure have your head in the clouds!"
Actually, he doesn't believe in clouds, only in physiology. Want to rephrase your remark in physiological language?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@JNV33 said
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@Froclown said
"Science is not opinion in any way. It collects objective data. "I appreciate your idealism. But for someone so enamoured with materialism and objectivity, you sure have your head in the clouds!"
Actually, he doesn't believe in clouds, only in physiology. Want to rephrase your remark in physiological language?
"Well, that doesn't make any sense that would mean he had is head...
Oh! never mind...Love and Will
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Most often Crowley meant by he is the reincarnation of such and such, that the person's writings and works were a strong influence in him and he was continuing their work.
In the same way we might say Einstein was the reincarnation of newton.
I leave the auto correct on, because I mistype as it is, this keyboard miss keys, I don't know how to spell some words, and I can't use a back arrow to fix words, trying to put the cursed where I want in iPad, makes me want to pull my hair out. So its easier to just deal with the autocorrect.
When I get my Linux system back, you can expect my normal level of mistyping due only to a neurological mapping mix up between my fingers and thoughts.
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@Froclown said
"Most often Crowley meant by he is the reincarnation of such and such, that the person's writings and works were a strong influence in him and he was continuing their work. "
No, that simply isn't true. He was not speaking of influence. His experience was that he had their memories and that there was continuity of existence from "them" to "him."
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@Froclown said
"Most often Crowley meant by he is the reincarnation of such and such, that the person's writings and works were a strong influence in him and he was continuing their work. "
Now he KNOWS what Crowley "meant" as opposed to what was written.
Froclown, show your sources.
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Excuse me, but wasn't this thread actually supposed to be about Black Brothers?
Why don't we start a "Froclown verses everyone else" thread; and that way we can clear up the rest of the forum for more balanced discussion?
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For the record: Actually I think that I can understand what froclown is about, although you seem to be very left brain heavy.
Personally I do not "believe" in psychic phenomena, I have repeatedly performed the practices of Liber E, and have honestly concluded that I myself have no clairvoyance or psychic abilities of that kind.
I have an uncle who dowses for water, he does not know how it works, but for him it works; maybe he could test this, but for him that seems pointless because he knows that for him it works (who has the how is careless of the why).
Yet despite my disbelief in spells, and wishing,and god, and spirits, and souls; and my inclination to every now and then decide that it's all bollocks, nonetheless things keep getting through my rationalist mindset.
My personal practice continues to bring forth little snippets of what i can only call personal growth, ( i think "enlightenment" is far too big a word) although i'm inclined to view all of it in the light of psychology as much as "spirituality" (I hate that word).So, in short, logically i'm with froclown, but in practice i'm quite happy suspending my disbelief if it gets results.
