LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

magictortoise

"I saw in your previous thread to this one (at least in regards to the study of the Thoth tarot) that people were saying "the deck doesn't matter". This is patently false. Allow me to elucidate why as I advise you on a strategy for integrating the occult deep into your subconscious. "

Ohh, i just saw this.. Hope this post was not meant for me, as in that case it would be entirely wasted (i mean - it is anyway, just saying.)
I am studying from Jim's materials and we are really happy and honored here to have the possibility to ask him directly things we need more explaining; other than that , and friendly and supportive guidance from the friends here - i am not really interested. I've been reading Tarot for 15y now, have written (and published) two books of Tarot inspired fiction, am on a level of a Grandmaster, so its not that i am looking for any other guidance, exept the above listed.

Al-Shariyf

Tortoise side message me, I have an idea about working with Liber Theta.

Jim Eshelman

@Dar said

"I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. "

You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot

Corvinae

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Dar said
"I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. "

You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot "

Very,

Dar, remember what we said about that word never......

I hate restrictions, don't wear shoes, panties, ect.....
And I never
Rule out a
Lover

Oops. Dang it, I said never didnt I.

Al-Shariyf

"'m in a huge huff (given past history) and I want to be actively challenged on ALL of my little games by a bloke that wants to {****} me for keeping. lol"

I am more than up for that challenge says the cocky Prince of Wands

magictortoise

@Dar said

"amused

Tortoise is Gemini Sun and Scorp Asc (like me). But she has a chattering moon and I have Pisces which synthesizes and shuts up... I expect she's networking and stroking and adding the odd barb and the odd reward, which is why I called her superficial. "

My Moon is in Gemini.
The thing is that you are referring to Western astrology; by the one i rely on, Kabbalist , i am Sun in Taurus.
Given that i didn't have the honor of meeting you, the above is actually about the viewer's prism nothing else.
(Ohh, and, just for the sake of chart comparison, i have Stellium - Sun, Moon and Mars in 8th House. )

@Dar said

"Ha - Tortoise is also a family name (of my female side). It's an interesting Royal name. One of those dappled and speckled names that relate to strawberries and strange mushrooms of which the local lore abounds.

Once upon a time, Christ and St. Peter walked through Hungary on a fast, and Christ kept throwing away his good bread - which grew into wonderful mushrooms, but St. Peter was tempted by the devil and all the bread he threw away turned into poisonous shrooms...
"

*Nomen est omen. *
My mother is from those parts (former Austrian -Hungary), but we are not Christian so i can' really relate to the little tale you kindly shared.
Mine stems from the Yi Jing, 27th hexagram, 1st line

You let your magic tortoise go,
And look at me with the corners of your mouth drooping.
Misfortune.

The magic tortoise is a creature possessed of such supernatural powers that it lives on air and needs no earthly nourishment. The image means that a man fitted by nature and position to live freely and independently renounces this self-reliance and instead looks with envy and discontent at others who are outwardly in better circumstances. But such base envy only arouses derision and contempt in those others. This has bad results.
(Wilhelm-Baynes translation.)

@Dar said

"I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. "

Hmm, wouldn't know with certainty what **** stands for, but as someone said - never say never.
Oh, and i like you too, but then i like most of the people - and probably your mom (or some other motherly figure) has thought you to Never Trust A Stranger (at least not with your heart.)

(Though, honestly, for my part, i don't recall trying to get your trust, or - per that matter -to invoke any other emotions and/or sensations, carnal or not. )

@Jim Eshelman said

"You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot "

Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head.

eta for typo

magictortoise

@Veronica said

"I think I need a cigarette,
"

Veronica, that's pretty much how i felt - and i lit a cigarette indeed.
(After quite some time of being smoke-free... need to get the patches once again. )

magictortoise

@Shadonis said

"Tortoise side message me, I have an idea about working with Liber Theta."

Done!

RobertAllen

@magictortoise said

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot "

Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head.
"

I suspect magictortoise of being a man. No, I don't mind being wrong about this. There is just something about the way she flames.

Love and Will

magictortoise

@RobertAllen said

"
@magictortoise said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot "

Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head.
"

I suspect magictortoise of being a man. No, I don't mind being wrong about this. There is just something about the way she flames.

Love and Will"

Hahah!!! Lol!!! Maybe - in my head, but by the gender, no. 'Tis me (edited)

RobertAllen

<sigh>

I don't do facebook. Yeah, I'm like the only person on the planet who doesn't. Principles suck sometimes!

EDIT: still a little confused, but I hope I did what was asked...

Love and Will

magictortoise

@RobertAllen said

"
@magictortoise said
"
Hahah!!! Lol!!! Maybe - in my head, but by the gender, no. 'Tis me "

<sigh>

I don't do facebook. Yeah, I'm like the only person on the planet who doesn't. Principles suck sometimes!

Love and Will"

Aww...

Btw, i re-posted on fb the link to that art-site you shared , with credit (and link to) the Temple of Thelema too!.
Ok, this was just for you - but i'll edit the fb link, so please edit it too from the quote, ok?

RobertAllen

@magictortoise said

"Btw, i re-posted on fb the link to that art-site you shared , with credit (and link to) the Temple of Thelema too!.
Ok, this was just for you - but i'll edit the fb link, so please edit it too from the quote, ok?"

I'm confused. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, or where to do it.

Love and Will

magictortoise

@Dar said

"I have a FB account but only use it once or twice a year at most. It irritates me that I can't delete the account."

Dar, you are doing great - i read elsewhere that you quit smoking - CONGRATS!!! I go crazy when i quit smoking, at least for first ten days or so

magictortoise

Another hats off to Jim : LIBER Θ is unsurpassed on Courts!!!
Some of the best books on the market, like Wang's Qabbalistic Tarot - fail badly on that one, LIBER Θ is a real eye-opener!
I have quoted bits (with all the credits, links etc., and nothing that would eventually breach the copyright) on a Tarot forum - and folks are totally mind-blown!

Yesterday i got it in a reading that i need to stabilize the energy of the Queen of Wands (and i felt it intuitively anyway), so i did the meditation with additional cards surrounding the Queen (as its suggested in LIBER Θ ) - and i must tell you that its an absolutely amazing experience!!!
I didn't read the whole book yet - so i don't know exactly why are those very minors + the Emperor chosen for the meditation on the Queen of Wands (i'll come to that later on i suppose, as i have a lot going on in rl and my work); but the point is that it does the magick! Its amazing how quickly and efficiently those meditations work!
I really recommend to everyone to do this meditation at least for their own Court!

Also, Jim, do you agree with this table?

Dates associated with Court cards, according to GD
(for choosing one's Court/Significator)

Queen of Wands: 20d Pisces - 20d Aries (Mar. 11 - April 11)
Prince of Coins: 20d Aries - 20d Taurus. (April 11-May 11)
Knight of Swords: 20d Taurus- 20d Gemini (May 11-June 11)
Queen of Cups: 20d Gemini to 20d Cancer (June 11-July 11)
Prince of Wands: 20d Cancer - 20d Leo (July 11-August 11)
Knight of Coins: 20d Leo - 20d Virgo (August 11 - Sep. 11)
Queen of Swords: 20d Virgo to 20 Libra (Sep. 11- Oct. 11)
Prince of Cups: 20d of Libra to 20d Scorpio (Oct. 11 - Nov 11)
Knight of Wands: 20d Scorpio - 20d Sagattarius (Nov 11- Dec 11)
Queen of Coins: 20d Sagittarius to 20d Capricorn (Dec 11 - Jan 11)
Prince of Swords: 20d Capricorn - 20d Aquarius (Jan 11- Feb 11)
Knight of Cups: 20d Aquarius-20d Pisces (Feb 11 - March 11)

Btw, another simple, yet efficient method to find out what energy is needed is to shuffle the deck (with intent!!!), cut it and then go through the cards , starting from the base - until you arrive to the first Court.
I do invocation before that, not sure whether it works otherwise (probably does.)

magictortoise

@Dar said

"
@magictortoise said
"
@Dar said
"I have a FB account but only use it once or twice a year at most. It irritates me that I can't delete the account."

Dar, you are doing great - i read elsewhere that you quit smoking - CONGRATS!!! I go crazy when i quit smoking, at least for first ten days or so "

Thanks... I'm crazy anyway though. 8 days... "

Me too, don't your worry... and i feel we are among kindred souls here.

Bravo to you!

@Dar said

"I think I must be on a self-improvement month - quitting coffee too, drinking green tea, vitamins and getting myself some kelp! It just seemed to happen... that I started looking after myself better."

Dar, i don't know about Thelema much (close to nothing ) - as of yet, but by Jewish/Kabbalist calendar, its exactly the period of year for that, before the new year, its called Teshuva - going back to one's real self and working through all the stuff we have even from past lives. I feel it too and am trying to work through my own (numerous) issues! Best of luck!

magictortoise

@Dar said

"
@magictortoise said
"
@Dar said
"I think I must be on a self-improvement month - quitting coffee too, drinking green tea, vitamins and getting myself some kelp! It just seemed to happen... that I started looking after myself better."

Dar, i don't know about Thelema much (close to nothing ) - as of yet, but by Jewish/Kabbalist calendar, its exactly the period of year for that, before the new year, its called Teshuva - going back to one's real self and working through all the stuff we have even from past lives. I feel it too and am trying to work through my own (numerous) issues! Best of luck!"

Aha! Nice. That chimes with a divination I did last night too. It featured a reference to 'a scribe - in the Jewish sense of "One who reads and explains the Law to the People.' And there was a certain strong desire to go to Nice (in France) and 'choose at will from the philosophies there in an eclectic manner'... and something about an Eaglet. lol."

Wow, how cool is that?! Btw, if at any point of time you'd like me to do a Tarot reading for you , just say so, ok?

magictortoise

@Dar said

"
@magictortoise said
"Wow, how cool is that?! Btw, if at any point of time you'd like me to do a Tarot reading for you , just say so, ok?"

That would be cool Ruth! I'll wait until I have something to ask. And likewise - if you'd like to double check your results any time with a spot of bibliomancy then just give me a shout. I've been doing bibliomancy since I was a kid. "

Yay! Awesome! I will! Thank you.

Takamba

@Dar said

"I think I must be on a self-improvement month - quitting coffee too, drinking green tea, vitamins and getting myself some kelp! It just seemed to happen... that I started looking after myself better."

You are quite right! September is Self-Awareness/Self Improvement Month in the States.

Jim Eshelman

@magictortoise said

"Also, Jim, do you agree with this table?

Dates associated with Court cards, according to GD
(for choosing one's Court/Significator)"

The table you gave refers to Tropical zodiac positions of the Sun. It's correctly executed but (since you asked) I don't agree with it for two reasons:
(1) It's based on a zodiac that doesn't exist.
(2) Even if that weren't true, I don't think this model of assigned degrees is the best way to pick a significator. It forces things in too many wrong directions.

There are many useful ways to pick a significator. My favorite involving the Court Cards is to pick the suit according to the Element of your Sidereal Sun-sign, and the rank according to whether you are mature male, mature female, young male, or young female. Even then, be flexible, because we all play different functions at different times and settings, and the significator can shift and evolve according to that. (I think I gave elsewhere the example of late 20's when I tended to appear as the Knight of Disks when I was 'myself,' Prince of Wands when the reading was about me as protoge to my Aries boss at the time [who always appeared as the Knight of Wands], and The Hermit when my spiritual development was the issue.)