The nature of ZOM
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I have searched the Forums for this topic and came out almost empty-handed, so I apologize if this has already been discussed before.
I have been visiting Aethyrs for some time and learn a lot and had some interesting experiences along the way and especially in the last four or five ones.
In The V&V we can see massive amount of symbolism and I admit, my knowledge of those symbols is not profound enough, yet. I am more of a ZEN oriented individual, so you can imagine the thrills and spills I experience when reading V&V
What I do realize is that ZOM experiences can be relative (with certain consistencies, nevertheless), but only to the deeper insights revealed in the last two levels.
In my case, some prophetic things have been heard and seen in ZOM, most of which have been really grasped only in the light of ARN and LIL.Nothing is "true" in ZOM, it is said. Well, yes, but only relative to deeper reality.
What are your experiences of the nature of ZOM, please?
(if this is not to be discussed openly, it is ok).93 93/93
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First of all, I don't think that anyone below the grade of 9=2 (or maybe 8=3) is likely to get anything authentic and trustworthy from the 3rd Aethyr. (It's basically the experiencing of the Path of Beth in the Magus' eventual opening to Kether. Even Crowley's vision of it was filled with "…all these things [that] are the toys of the Magician…, that barreth the Understanding from the Crown.")
I wonder, though, if you've seen my book Visions & Voices? It may be of interest to you.
helema.org/publications/vv.html -
Hello there, thank you for your reply.
@Jim Eshelman said
"First of all, I don't think that anyone below the grade of 9=2 (or maybe 8=3) is likely to get anything authentic and trustworthy from the 3rd Aethyr. (It's basically the experiencing of the Path of Beth in the Magus' eventual opening to Kether. "
I see. It is a matter of attainment or Initiation. OK.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Even Crowley's vision of it was filled with "…all these things [that] are the toys of the Magician…, that barreth the Understanding from the Crown.")"
Yes.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I wonder, though, if you've seen my book Visions & Voices? It may be of interest to you.
helema.org/publications/vv.html"Yes I have, but haven't taken the time to really look into it yet.
I guess now is the right time.Tnx.
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Yes, I do think it's a matter of the level of one's initiation. Crowley, when he first tried these in 1900, found that he couldn't penetrate past the 29th. I've found over the years that I'm either turned back at one level at one point in time, and then move past it later after moving to a different grade. (I'm not sure the map is quite the same for everyone; individual capacity for this sort of work can accelerate or retard the efforts a bit.)
The Aethyrs do appear to primarily correspond to the 10 Sephiroth in Yetzirah, then Briah, then Atziluth, so one would expect that a real penetration beyond the 21st wouldn't happen (except, perhaps, spottily) for anyone that isn't awake in Briah - basically, the threshold between Dominus Liminis and Adeptus Minor.
And Crowley was told in the Vision of the 15th Aethyr:
@15th Aethyr said
"...for from the 1st Æthyr to the 15th Æthyr, there is no vision and no voice, save for him that is called NEMO. And he that seeketh the vision and the voice therein is led away by dog-faced demons that show no sign of truth, seducing from the Sacred Mysteries, unless his name be NEMO."
That is, unless he or she is a Master of the Temple 8=3.
One must always say YMMV; but the broad principle, at least, seems to be sound. It is so easy (SO easy!) to get the outer veils that are so deceptive. In most of Crowley's visions from the 20th through the 11th, you can see the pulling back of a veil, or the falling of a wall, etc., partway into the vision - these are the Briatic-level aethyrs, and it's pretty easy to see them beginning as pretty standard Yetziratic type astral vision (albeit, visions of a highly experienced adept), and then, soon into the vision, the veil between Yetzirah and Briah is passed and the vision takes an entirely different tone. These are pretty good examples of the difference between penetrating into the rightful level of the aethyr vs. just getting the more illusory Yetziratic level.
Imagine if each of these (20th-11th) had been nothing but their intro levels - the level at which they started. Those are examples of the sort of deceptions one can get (even at one's best) if one isn't able to penetrate to the real level of the vision.
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Thank you for your thoughts. It all makes sense.
Will look into your book before I comment more on the thoughts you shared...
@Jim Eshelman said
"Imagine if each of these (20th-11th) had been nothing but their intro levels - the level at which they started. Those are examples of the sort of deceptions one can get (even at one's best) if one isn't able to penetrate to the real level of the vision."
...all I can say now is this, I guess:
one cant really fake or force his entry into any Aethyr, not even the 30th or 29th one (at least that's my experience and experience of my mystical/magical friends; and AC being the prime example of that).Furthermore, even if one is really perceiving only the illusory layers (as you put it) of Aethyrs up to 11th, this stops at ZAX. Only one tone there, so to speak, either you get past the grumpy guy 'there' or not. No pretense there.
Subjective are these topics, in my opinion, hope we can find common ground about it.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I wonder, though, if you've seen my book Visions & Voices? It may be of interest to you.
helema.org/publications/vv.html"Jim, just want to acknowledge your work.
I bought it months ago, not taking the time to *really *look into it. Well now I did.The dedication to Marion really touched me.
Hmm. I almost wish I had relationship at that level of commitment. LOLAnd the Prologue 2 and Introduction, well cudos. With all the bullshit floating around in so many magick/mystical books, I find the line of thought presented therein refreshing.
Cant wait to finish this one off (and I hardly bring myself to read these days).Thank you.
Namaste.(edited: added Prologue 2)
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Thanks.
