Bornless One opening and closing before and after ?
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93 When I do the Bornless One ritual I open with LBRP then LBRH then Greater Invoking Pentagram then close with Greater Banishing Pentagram then LBRP and LBRH . Does this sound right for a proper circle or do I need to do Watchtower ceremony also . Also in the book Modern magick I read the Barbarouse names need to to be repeated over and over till you fill the Bornless One Invoke but n Liber 800 it doesnt say that so was wondering about that also . Thank You 93/93
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Have you read the full Scholion to Liber Samekh? There is some mention of that technique.
I think you're on the right track - nothing wrong with it. I think you might be doing an overkill, at least a little. For example, this ritual warrants a set-aside temple space that isn't used for anything else whatsoever (as for the course of an Abfamelin operation). You can consecrate the space at the beginning, and not use it for anything else for the course of your operation. Then you don't need the banishings (and, in fact, shouldn't do them) - the place, by repeated invocations, simply increases in holiness.
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ok i see thank you very much 93
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Jim,
in an earlier post of yours, you say that you've hardly ever used a Circle besides for evocation.
Would creating your own circle with a Pentagram (or probably less effective, Hexagram,) ritual count for having a circle about you instead of on the ground.
For instance, a lesser banishing or invoking pentagram ritual would put you right at Tiphereth, as long as you did it right and ended your "Amen" during the pentagram ritual, touching Tiphereth at the heart level, glowing with knowledge and conversation.
Wouldn't this create a circle about you, and leave you physically at Tiphereth, to do your moving around in the astral?
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@ThelemicMage said
"in an earlier post of yours, you say that you've hardly ever used a Circle besides for evocation.
Would creating your own circle with a Pentagram (or probably less effective, Hexagram,) ritual count for having a circle about you instead of on the ground."
Yes, you can do it for that purpose. But (unless you are explicitly intended to demarcate the physical place) the Pentagram and Hexagram Rituals tend not to define or limit the place. The pentagrams and hexagrams are drawn with the arm straight so that they retain geometrical accuracy at an infinite distance, and (even if seen close in front of you) generally are conceived as being traced on all space between you and an infinite distance away. That formula doesn't define a space. (All of space is your temple.)
However, you can intend to specifically mark a space. If I've wanted to do that, I've pre-demarcated it most of the time, with tracing a circle or drawing an curtain of astral light, or some such thing.
"For instance, a lesser banishing or invoking pentagram ritual would put you right at Tiphereth, as long as you did it right and ended your "Amen" during the pentagram ritual, touching Tiphereth at the heart level, glowing with knowledge and conversation."
I don't really see where you get that.
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It was my understanding that when performing a lesser pentagram ritual, you are on the path of Samekh, right before tiphereth. At the end of the last Qabalistic cross, when vibrating "Amen", and touching your body corresponding to Tiphereth, as long as it is done correctly you are in temporary knowledge and conversation, and essentially one with Tiphereth.
Now if you created a circle like this for liber Samekh, as long as you remained in K&C for the duration of the ritual, wouldn't this relinquish the need to have a square for Tiphereth?
So basically, you create a circle with the pentagram ritual, as you trace the line from each quarter, demarcating the space, and being on the path of Samekh from LPR, seems appropriate for Liber Samekh, both seeking K&C from Tiphereth?
And thank you for your previous explanation.
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@ThelemicMage said
"It was my understanding that when performing a lesser pentagram ritual, you are on the path of Samekh, right before tiphereth."
Yes, that's the symbolic level.
"At the end of the last Qabalistic cross, when vibrating "Amen", and touching your body corresponding to Tiphereth, as long as it is done correctly you are in temporary knowledge and conversation, and essentially one with Tiphereth. "
If it were that easy, everyone would do it
Seriously, "temporary Knowledge and Conversation"? That's an EXTRAORDIARY claim. And, truly, if it had any truth to it at all, people would be touching themselves WAY more. -
Jim so if not able to make one place only used for Bornless One ritual like in Abra Melin it doesnt work correct ?
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@Sidann Storm said
"Jim so if not able to make one place only used for Bornless One ritual like in Abra Melin it doesnt work correct ?"
Well... you lose something.
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You lose something ? So it is still is worth doing just not as much energy will build up as when you use only one place like in Abra Melin ? I dont need to cast a circle or do LBRP ? Just do Bornless One ritual by its self ?
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"If it were that easy, everyone would do it
Seriously, "temporary Knowledge and Conversation"? That's an EXTRAORDIARY claim. And, truly, if it had any truth to it at all, people would be touching themselves WAY more."I mean, when one finishes a regular cleansing of a room with LBRP, one does not continually "stay" in K&C with their Angel, but the process brings them directly with K&C, and gradually drops them off back to the material plane, temporarily in K&C.
I understand what you mean by knowledge and conversation, since "we", (those who have strived), are in constant K&C with our Angels, despite our ignorance at times. However, at the end of a pentagram ritual, I feel as if I am in direct K&C, with my Angel beaming the Light directly into Tiphereth of my body, radiating throughout. This is all I meant.
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@ThelemicMage said
"
"If it were that easy, everyone would do it Seriously, "temporary Knowledge and Conversation"? That's an EXTRAORDIARY claim. And, truly, if it had any truth to it at all, people would be touching themselves WAY more."I mean, when one finishes a regular cleansing of a room with LBRP, one does not continually "stay" in K&C with their Angel, but the process brings them directly with K&C, and gradually drops them off back to the material plane, temporarily in K&C. "
I'm saying that touching yourself is insufficient to give the K&C of the HGA. (If that's all it took, people would be touching themselves WAY more.)
"I understand what you mean by knowledge and conversation, since "we", (those who have strived), are in constant K&C with our Angels, despite our ignorance at times."
There is a constant presence of the Angel, yes. But that's not K&C. If you want to say, "briefly bring awareness to the inherent link to the Angel," then say that. K&C is an in-the-moment awareness altering intimacy that overwhelms in its intensity the whole of one's prior life-experiences.
"However, at the end of a pentagram ritual, I feel as if I am in direct K&C, with my Angel beaming the Light directly into Tiphereth of my body, radiating throughout. This is all I meant.
"OK. That's not what you said. (And now you mention the end, whereas before you said it was at the point of touching your chest.)
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Maybe my fourth grade teacher was right, I must have a problem with touching myself.
This just has to be the case.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Sidann Storm said
"Jim so if not able to make one place only used for Bornless One ritual like in Abra Melin it doesnt work correct ?"Well... you lose something."
You lose something ? So it is still is worth doing just not as much energy will build up as when you use only one place like in Abra Melin ? I dont need to cast a circle or do LBRP ? Just do Bornless One ritual by its self ?
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I can't tell you what's going to work for you. Nobody can. It would be highly rare for anyone not already almost an Adeptus Minor to have a very full result but, again, neither nor anybody can tell you what's in the cards for you on this particular thing.
If you are fully successful, you will respond on the spot to every physical, psychic, and intrapsychic thing within your field of perception. It will run an energy through your nervous system and through your psyche that is ferociously, splendidly intense - fixating and imprinting your soul for years to come. Personally, I wouldn't consider undertaking a full operation in anything less than a set-aside, sanctified, inwardly and outwardly beautiful space devoted to the operation.
Then again, neither I, nor anyone else, can tell you what will work for you or when so far as this particular operation goes.
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93 Thank you Jim for the advise 93/93
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@Jim Eshelman said
"
If you are fully successful, you will respond on the spot to every physical, psychic, and intrapsychic thing within your field of perception. It will run an energy through your nervous system and through your psyche that is ferociously, splendidly intense - fixating and imprinting your soul for years to come."
That is the way I feel since I have been doing it .