Infuriation
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"Unnecessary to invoke since it happened in the course of things anyway. I had 'Legion' chattering at me instead. Lies, flattery, manipulation, accusation. Constant talking, involution, swearing, repetition. Very testing and prolonged. Reading Crowley's account of Zax and Choronzon - same difference really.
They/It - left me with a last message to puzzle out and then left for good. That last message was of a very different character to the others. It was all about a stone that terrified them because they couldn't see it. "
It must have been difficult... but you prevailed. Kudos.
@Dar es Allarah said
"
Why?"Was just interested in experience of ZAX of someone who has actually crossed it.
Tnx for sharing though.
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"Being a probationer was interesting but I would never have been allowed to go any further than that, because you can't make a genuine commitment to redo stuff you've already done. That's just impossible, so although I was honest about my motivations - I still think I placed myself in a false position. "
Hmm.
IMO, one can always learn new things or deepen the stuff already attained. It does take a pinch of humility, though (at least in my case it did). -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"I have not lived before this life in any genuine way"
Powerful words!
"This is one of the reasons I got 'Legion' and not Choronzon -for Legion is many and I was gifted with many patterns concurrently."
I don't see any real difference between Legion and Choronzon. ('Legion' is a great description of Choronzon's working!) - How are you distinguishing? [LOL, that's an ironic question, under the circumstances.]
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
No kidding.
"Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" "Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss."
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
I sent off my Oath of Probation just yesterday.
The thoughts being expressed on this thread resonate with what's been on my mind the past week.
I did give a bit of a fit as to what lineage I was to Work with, but ultimately, I don't care either.
In my first two years of study(I suppose, my period of Studentship), I've experienced everywhere within my internal development naught but my intuition and Fool's chance could take me. Took me far. I had a vision of my Angel, I lived day by day following His guidance through the synchronicity we all know(which brought a whole slew of odd experiences and peculiar powers, as it will), but eventually tripped, fell, and ended up staring right into the ever-shifting face of Choronzon. Nowhere I reached had the capacity to be sustained.
I believe that this will always happen if one is not keeping a train of Order throughout all the Chaos we're already aware of, and perhaps already adept at directing. One can go far on one's own whim, but the attainments will only be for oneself. I see my signing of the Oath as me giving myself to the collective evolution rather than just my own, as well as giving me a chance to consciously climb the Tree, step-by-step rather than haphazardly as circumstance took me, meet my Angel on my own terms, and confront the Mighty Sausage again from a place of strength(while building a certain skill-set along the way that is best cultivated by a teacher).
I see the chance to start back at the bottom refreshing, and motivating. -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"Legion seems more like a community or hive mind that can speak as one, or 3, or a thousand but has no genuine wholeness. I haven't heard Crowley describe Choronzon like that but it may be that they are the same and there is no difference between the one and the many. It really hates it if you declare that neither you nor it/they really exists."
My basic description of Choronzon is "ALL knowledge taken to [the threshold of] the infinite, where each unit of knowledge exists simultaneously in awareness, with no inherent relatedness or cohesion between any of its units." All ideas of dispersion and incontinence, overcome only by concentration and silence. The mind survives and moves on when it makes the shift from particle-awareness (knowledge as division) to global awareness.
"Anyway... I'm wasting no more time thinking on the sausage of doom. More fun things to do!"
Agreed!
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"Would you give me an example please?"
Reading a new book from the list, sitting in siddhasana for one hour etc...
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"
Yes, I agree - but gestalt shifts in consciousness are a different matter."What do you mean?
I dont follow. -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"
It is when learning (and unlearning) is building up to a crescendo, and then - just like watching a very supersaturated liquid that you've fed drop by careful drop in a petri dish and you give it the slightest knock, transforms in an instant in front of your eyes into crystals. That is a gestalt change of the whole, and the same thing can happen with your consciousness. It happens on the attainment to Tiphareth and also when crossing the abyss (although I describe that as a 'turning point')."
Yes, exactly what I meant above.
Tnx.
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Frater INRI said
"
@Dar es Allarah said
"Would you give me an example please?"Reading a new book from the list, sitting in siddhasana for one hour etc..."
I was thinking of this idea,
I studied math, and I aced the test. I understood how to get the answer from my perspective. Yet not everyone learns the same, we all have our own unique perspective. I may want to study the subject again, deliberately from a different perspective, so that I can deepen my u derstanding and share my understanding with others who are on the same subject (teach).
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Veronica said
"
I studied math, and I aced the test. I understood how to get the answer from my perspective. Yet not everyone learns the same, we all have our own unique perspective. I may want to study the subject again, deliberately from a different perspective, so that I can deepen my u derstanding and share my understanding with others who are on the same subject (teach)."Yes.
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To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dar es Allarah said
"Actually no, you seem to be missing my point. "
OK
@Dar es Allarah said
" It's not a matter of 'having humility', although if you are who I think you are then I understand why you'd think that.
"So, who am I then?
<big ears> -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Frater INRI said
"
@Dar es Allarah said
"Actually no, you seem to be missing my point. "OK
@Dar es Allarah said
" It's not a matter of 'having humility', although if you are who I think you are then I understand why you'd think that.
"So, who am I then?
<big ears>"How many guesses do we get?
Just in case you are Jimmy Page...
I meant every word...
-
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
-
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Veronica said
"
How many guesses do we get?Just in case you are Jimmy Page...
I meant every word..."LOL
I was thinking more along the lines of Bruce Dickinson & Co.
LOL -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Dara Allarah said
"
@Frater INRI said
"Dar, have you completed the Aethyrs?"Nope. Not in this life, anyway.
"If so, how was ZAX?"
Unnecessary to invoke since it happened in the course of things anyway. I had 'Legion' chattering at me instead. Lies, flattery, manipulation, accusation. Constant talking, involution, swearing, repetition. Very testing and prolonged. Reading Crowley's account of Zax and Choronzon - same difference really.
They/It - left me with a last message to puzzle out and then left for good. That last message was of a very different character to the others. It was all about a stone that terrified them because they couldn't see it.
Why?"Can I ask your opinion on this, anybody....
If a person is in a place emotionaly, of hatred, rage, murder, no compassion, understanding, or truth, just ego victim head space.....
And they read Anton Laveys Satanic Bible, and Satanic Rituals....and in a way filtered that emotional energy and thought pattern upon a specific " subject" or being,
Do you think that would open a door to invite such things as Legion to manifest? Lies, accusations, ect.....
I am in a very tight spot right now, and I think it is because of others unwittingly inviting this trouble to take an opportunity.
-
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Veronica said
"Can I ask your opinion on this, anybody....
If a person is in a place emotionaly, of hatred, rage, murder, no compassion, understanding, or truth, just ego victim head space.....
And they read Anton Laveys Satanic Bible, and Satanic Rituals....and in a way filtered that emotional energy and thought pattern upon a specific " subject" or being,
Do you think that would open a door to invite such things as Legion to manifest? Lies, accusations, ect.....
I am in a very tight spot right now, and I think it is because of others unwittingly inviting this trouble to take an opportunity.
"I believe that this is entirely possible, in some fashion.
A friend of mine recently became consumed by his hatred and rage.
In his ranting diatribes, foam pouring from his mouth it was easy to see him working dark magicks...
Transforming the world into a creation of Satan, filled with lies.
Legion were the forces rising up to stop him, to keep him from attaining his goal of happiness.In reality it was his own decisions or lack thereof putting him in the hole.
Each time a problem occurred, he did not deal with it.
He sought out a distraction, till that fell through...
Then another, until realizing how far a hole he had dug ,
This realization, of course, coming after it was too late to do anything about his problems.
Not that he could do anything about them, until OTHERS stopped trying to stop him.-sigh-
When he gets like this, I take a step back, give him a few days to cool down.
Though recent threats he has made has caused me to consider cutting him off entirely.
Well, not entirely. He is part of my 'family,' dear ole dad has to step in and make things right every so often. -
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
@Uni_Verse said
"
Transforming the world into a creation of Satan, filled with lies.
Legion were the forces rising up to stop him, to keep him from attaining his goal of happinessIn reality it was his own decisions or lack thereof putting him in the hole.Each time a problem occurred, he did not deal with it.
He sought out a distraction, till that fell through...
Then another, until realizing how far a hole he had dug ,
This realization, of course, coming after it was too late to do anything about his problems.Not that he could do anything about them, until OTHERS stopped trying to stop him.When he gets like this, I take a step back, give him a few days to cool down.Though recent threats he has made has caused me to consider cutting him off entirely.Well, not entirely. He is part of my 'family,' dear ole dad has to step in and make things right every so often."Thank you for that, not dealing with this problem right away....yea thats what happened and now the situation has escalated to the point where lies, vindictivness and accusations are.....well, full force.
How do you not allow this to destroy and infect further?
I think I need more practice at using my dimmer switch.....
-
To preface, I know that James will not speak of other lineages or the O.T.O. and this thread is not meant to be a discussion of other bodies, but instead a cry for clarification of what the "truth" is. If Crowley appointed Germer as his successor, who did Germer truly appoint?
The more I read, the more I feel negative feelings of irritation, confusion, and other such base emotions. I imagine hiding in the nooks and crannies are all sorts of lineages that state they are "The One" and correct lineage to A.C. I read about The "Caliphate O.T.O." founded by Grady Louis McMurtry with assistance from other corrupt individuals is nothing less than a tale of egomaniacal subversion. Grady McMurtry failed to accept the Will of Aleister Crowley in his appointment of Karl Johannes Germer as His Successor as Outer Head of the O.T.O., and subsequently took it upon himself to contest the rights of the true Heir to the Crown in a secular court of law.
I read about Karl Germer introducing this Marcelo Motta to Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Helen Parsons Smith, Jane Wolfe, Ray and Mildred Burlingame, Gabriel Montenegro Vargas, Jean and Ero Sivohnen, Louis Culling and I read references to him as Germer's "star pupil" n the A.·.A.·. And later alledgedly on his death bed appointing Motta as his successor.
Would Germer knowingly establish multiple lineages? Or is that as long as one was initiated by a legitimate member of the A.·.A.·. that they were free to create their own bodies?
How is one supposed to know the truth? Now that I've calmed down about it, I suppose that the truth isn't so much important as looking at the individual lineages, and meditating upon them until you feel right about it. Still though, the truth feels ellusive. In Motto's case, much like Frater Achad, there seems to be a gap in the time line wherein at one moment, they are in the Ordo GD and then next mention in the Third Order. It just doesn't settle well with my intuition.
I sincerely appreciate any clarification on these issues. Again though, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about other lineages or what not, just more so what the policy was/is on how lineages are/were legitimately established.
Well I need to cut these puppets strings, that for sure.
I wish I could say....I told you so....( to this host). But that would be mean.
But, because of this person nepharious attitude, I now am entangled as well, and my kids. Which of course, makes me ask, what was my part in this, and in not preventing this to escilate to this point.
I guess there isnt much to do but shine, full force and hope it sheds light into all the little nooks and crannies.
Looks like I might be need a bottle of wine and my dancing shoes.
@Dara Allarah said
"
@Veronica said
"Can I ask your opinion on this, anybody....If a person is in a place emotionaly, of hatred, rage, murder, no compassion, understanding, or truth, just ego victim head space.....
And they read Anton Laveys Satanic Bible, and Satanic Rituals....and in a way filtered that emotional energy and thought pattern upon a specific " subject" or being,
Do you think that would open a door to invite such things as Legion to manifest? Lies, accusations, ect.....
I am in a very tight spot right now, and I think it is because of others unwittingly inviting this trouble to take an opportunity."
Yes. Some people are puppets to these things, and they allow themselves to be used. The more blindly egotistical they are, and the more they play games of Pity and Blame, then the easier it is for Legion to manipulate them - pulling their strings from the shadows... to spread a little more dispersion about. It's a parasite - seeking vicarious experience through the living and always on the look out for a new host or colony.
But people don't need a bible (Lavey's or the Christian one) to let Legion in. And it's hosts usually cluster around those who are bright lights on the astral...
... for instance - there was a time when if I ever wanted a certain person to call me, all I'd have to do is the LBRP. They'd call a few minutes afterwards - like clockwork. That's a pretty good indication of a host."
