Nuit came to me during my last DMT trip
-
I might kindly counter the above post and say that Nuit is an active goddess. Nuit Herself, in this Universe, (Or our 4 sets of Universes, in the Sephiroth projected into the 4 elements,) is actually Apophoraz, or Apophis. Crowley goes into dramatic detail in much of his work regarding this. Besz can be equated to Geb, the Bearded stout one, as being the first God of Earth.
She, Apophorasz, wraps the hadit of an Universe, (in the ancient egyptian pantheon, Ra,) and protects him. In newer Aeons, it's more like she wraps him up in "death" and allows him to evolve comfortably. This is in direct relation with what the South Americans who ingest ayahuasca call the "snake" vision, where one must be eaten up by the Snake of Mother Earth/Creation, to be purified and come out clean. They say that unless one gives oneself up to the Snake, then one will go insane until they do.
You are right, she does take many forms. However, one might say she is comprised of many forms of many different goddesses who play the role of Nuit in any Universe.
I doubt any ancient Egyptian paintings would have any "human" concept of Nuit without her extending herself and manifesting in such forms.
(And the DMT "elves" which are spoken of, I will let you in on a huge secret. Everything is about to break soon, so me typing this won't do any harm. I am not getting any communication from the SCs to not type this:
They are the level just past human, just before Ishim, or souls of Fire. The first true stop past human on the after-death plane. They evolved spiritually, past the need for "physical" bodies, by way of the rolling, flowing fire that is in the center of Malkuth. One might call it a proverbial "Hell" of sorts until the far-past-normal-death human soul lets go of the ego and allows Creation to work it's Magic.
That's why it's reported that when people smoke DMT, they feel very, very underground, and then the elves show up. The difference between forest elves and DMT elves is very easily seen and understood with successful repetition of the experiment. Again, I would suggest eating it instead of smoking it.Not many herbs on the Earth are meant to be smoked. Two of them that are are cannabis and tobacco. Natives who learned to combine these plants so long ago said that the plants themselves talked to them and told them how to make this stuff. No joke. They say that DMT is not to be smoked, neither coca, and a few others. The only thing that true SA natives smoke is tobacco, and a few similar herbs, unless they choose to smoke cannabis as well. )
"It's great to Learn, 'cause knowledge is Power!"
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OclttfJrUI8/TadZ5DOfzLI/AAAAAAAABSg/T2ZWxEMF72Q/s320/the_more_you_know.jpg
-
Actually, the substance you name as a simple "drug", (all the BS stigma from the twentieth century of alcohol hallucination applied to anything that causes a head change,) is your first and simplest neurotransmitter of awareness. One of the few neurotransmitters in nature actually produced by the human brain.
A "breakthrough" experience of this substance is very clear in logos about what lies after your own headset/brain in space and time.
Without a true breakthrough experience on basic tryptamines, one might as well call oneself a child and believe in the constant hypnogogia they are fed by society.
With a breakthrough experience, the best one can say is that they have had their eyes, including anja, open and able to perceive auras, entities, and creatures that children cannot.
-
As a South America native, sometimes I ask myself from where all this information about South America comes from.
Something important I get from the many groups that do ayhuasca around here is that usually only the initial experiences are breakthrough. After a while the consumers starts behaving very much like recreational drug users. Nothing against people having fun but, in my perspective, it stops being a process of initiation.
Strangely enough, they develop a very nasty habit of confusing the planes.
-
This is an interesting phenomenon, dear Faust, and I would like to hear more about it.
I have seen many a documentary about ayahuasca, and how many of the shamans do not actually make it strong enough, which obliterates the ego and suppresses "recreational" behavior.
Another thing that I've learned while actually there is that many of the shamans have taken to alcohol, cane liquor from what I understand, during the week and sometimes during the ceremonies themselves. The reason usually has to do with the younger generation not wanting to delve into the ancient concepts, customs, and ways of the ancient healing processes of nature that they've worked with for so long:
I am sure that "whites" and "white influence" coming from the north has much to do with this. Not only do they bring disease that is not easily dealt with by natives, but they bring the disease of modern culture with it's false-fast-paced values and cheapness of experience. (Shallow communication and experience passed off as the new age learning process.)
Would you say, Faust, that this recreational behavior comes with the introduction of other drugs, including alcohol, pharmaceuticals, cocaine, and other such substances that would throw off the genuine experience of a night of our sacred Aya?
I would not think twice about chewing coca during an experience, but doing lines of coke and drinking, by those who have convinced themselves that they have nothing left to learn from the Ayahuasca experience, would be a totally different thing. Cocaine was suggested as a cause because it's so plentiful and cheap down there, as compared to more northern locations.
-
ThelemicMage
If you mind, there are some points I would like do adress."“I have seen many a documentary about ayahuasca, and how many of the shamans do not actually make it strong enough, which obliterates the ego and suppresses "recreational" behavior."
”Strong doses result in strong alucinations and a lot of vomiting. Low doses are good way to reduce side-effects.
"Another thing that I've learned while actually there is that many of the shamans have taken to alcohol…"
The use of alcohol is an old problem among natives. For ages the knowledge of recreational drugs was controlled by the shaman but since the colonization they have become widly available.
"I am sure that "whites" and "white influence" coming from the north has much to do with this. Not only do they bring disease that is not easily dealt with by natives, but they bring the disease of modern culture with it's false-fast-paced values and cheapness of experience."
This is a dangerous misunderstanding because somehow sounds like the myth of the “good native”. The worst aspect of the “white influence” is in fact its “technology”. Very earlier most natives cultures started to destroy themselves (making war against each other) to get things like alcohol, mirros and iron weapons. This lust for “white things” still is a serious problem, not because this things are bad but this lust usually results in very unhealthy behaviors.
It is important to understand that the image of the Shaman as a “wise man” is a cultural lie that is sold to get some money from the new age movement. The Shaman is seen as a “man of power”, someone that you are afraid of but, at the same time, necessary.
And the sacred plant is seen as a treacherous being that must be dealt with proper rituals and long purifications or it will send lying spirits to you.
"“recreational behavior comes with the introduction of other drugs”"
Actually no, it already existed. The difference is that it was controlled by the shaman, because he was the only one who knew how to prepare the drugs (the first drug dealer) and they usually were very careful when using it themselves. Now a days, most users of ayhuasca have no training at all, or were trained by people that had no idea of what they were doing.
Most users fall in the same sort of trap that is described by Crowley in chapters XVIII of Magick in Theory and Practice, becoming badly self-deluded.
-
I am understanding these points. Many thanks for your personal take on it.
I am seeming to grasp your explanation, as well as the similarities to unceremonial/uncontrolled ayahuasca use to those experiences similar to those who eat LSD without proper training, guidance, reason, and lose themselves in the experience of attaching their ego to anything that interests them.
Albert Hoffman, the creator of LSD and for decades was a very heavy, active user of this substance, said that it must be taken to meditate, open oneself up, balance oneself, and expand the mind. He was quoted, many years before the hippie movement I believe, as expressing his fear of his wonder child getting into the hands of delinquents. He put forth the notion that damage could occur..
However, because so many people ate it in the 60s, and because those who ate it with balance and perfect reason ate so much of it, they pretty much controlled the minds/experiences of those delinquents who knew less of their higher selves. And as such, changed everything in the human consciousness/subconsciousness from music to textiles and government.
-
@Faus said
" It is important to understand that the image of the Shaman as a “wise man” is a cultural lie that is sold to get some money from the new age movement. The Shaman is seen as a “man of power”, someone that you are afraid of but, at the same time, necessary."
Excellent points, Faust. There's a great, probably apocraphyl, anecdote related Piers Vitebsky in one of his books... let's see if I can find the quote... ah, here it is, from The Shaman: Voyages of the Soul. Trance, Ecstasy and Healing from Siberia to the Amazon:
"A shaman from Nepal met a Westerner who remarked how good it must be to live in harmony with the cosmos. The shaman replied, 'The main part of my job is killing witches and sorcerers." -
Faust, might I ask you of your perspective and opinion of adding atropine alkaloid containing plants to the aya brew?
Atropine alkaloids, (I will state something that is not in any books so please bear with me,) connect one to the knowledge of death. This includes Datura, Brugsmansia, Nightshade, Hensbane, as well as the Coca Bush. They allow one to see past certain veils where one is able to view that light that is just past death, where one can see Truth, and jump into if they wish to be reincarnated, (the latter being the case if one is already dead.)
Many shamans claim that using Datura is "Evil", and only for Brujos. I find that conception misleading, and would say that my relationship with Datura is gentle, kind, even forgiving. It is my opinion that with plants of serious power like Datura, certain humans take it upon themselves to gain power greedily, and harm others for such reasons, even for fun.
Another one not in the books: Shamans or Brujos extremely experienced with Datura can easily leave their bodies, travel in the direct astral connected with the actual reality of Earth, and push someone off of a cliff if they so chose to.
This seems to be another one of those situations where personal morals, or the true goodness one has on one's soul, is the only thing that the experience ends up relying on.
What say you?
-
Well, then you may be right.
From all we can gather, since DMT is the first neurotransmitter known to the fetus, and because it is introduced so early, and during sleep, and death, that all we really experience is "hallucination."
You see, when the brain pumps out DMT during REM sleep, one goes through a psychedelic experience WAY too intense for them to remember, (this is proven scientifically when more than 60-80mg of dmt is consumed with one without tolerance,) and their brain shuts off the process of memory recording for the time being.
Dreams are the after-effect of that intense experience, after you've given yourself to the grid-work of reality, that connect that aforementioned intense experience to concepts they can more easily and less fearfully understood.
This proves that the initial DMT experience by the fetus is what is really perceived as real, and that the rest of the life, outside of such experiences, is all dreaming.
I totally agree with you, Potater.
Speaking of potaters, I will have prepare some for lunch. Thank you for reminding me, I am so hungry.
-
I did,
Dionysus carries a PineCone staff for a reason...
-
Well, if your own jury is out on the fetus thing, as it is with certain branches of science and that can be a good standpoint, then you might say that as soon as the fetus' pineal gland produces the first amount of DMT, then everything past that is hallucination.
Don't want to go that far, then the first REM sleep/stage a fetus has in the womb or later on, is the last point he would experience before everything else that comes after being hallucination.
And if this is the case, which it probably is, then the mother is still in hallucination, which would make the child a hallucination as well.
-
@ThelemicMage said
" You see, when the brain pumps out DMT during REM sleep, one goes through a psychedelic experience WAY too intense for them to remember, (this is proven scientifically when more than 60-80mg of dmt is consumed with one without tolerance,) and their brain shuts off the process of memory recording for the time being."
I've been lucid during REM sleep a number of times before, and had pretty accurate memory afterward, enough to write detailed records of the experiences. I suppose there are connections you could draw between those experiences and the psychedelic state, but not at all like what you're suggesting. -
@Frater Potater said
"Veronica,
No mention of DMT in that wiki article.
Thelemic mage, It seems like you keep missing the point. Maybe someday science will tell us what the link is, but for now there remains no proof to support what you are saying."
I supposed I should have said, a Fennel staff, tipped with a pine cone.
The vatican has beautiful pinecone sculpture....
Not occult at all, but right in the main square of the catherdral.
The pine cone is a symbol for the pineal gland, which is where some dmt is created. -
@ThelemicMage said
"Well, if your own jury is out on the fetus thing, as it is with certain branches of science and that can be a good standpoint, then you might say that as soon as the fetus' pineal gland produces the first amount of DMT, then everything past that is hallucination.
Don't want to go that far, then the first REM sleep/stage a fetus has in the womb or later on, is the last point he would experience before everything else that comes after being hallucination.
And if this is the case, which it probably is, then the mother is still in hallucination, which would make the child a hallucination as well.
"Everything is really just a hallucination, emanation, or whatever if you think about it kabbalistically.
-
@Iamus said
"
@ThelemicMage said
" You see, when the brain pumps out DMT during REM.shuts off the process of memory recording for the time being."
I've been lucid during REM sleep a number of times before, and had pretty accurate memory afterward, enough to write detailed records of the experiences. I suppose there are connections you could draw between those experiences and the psychedelic state, but not at all like what you're suggesting."When my mother was in the hospital dying several times in fact, i had discussions with her team of doctors, and they told me she would not recall a thing.....
But what she did recall, her near death expierences are very similiar to the reports i have read on dmt, and dmt usage.
She was having natural psychedilic expierences, brought on by her heart, and lungs.....dmt can be stored in the lungs, and her respiratory distress and the swelling and draining of her fluids could very easily account for her expiernces with what she called aliens, and elementals....and since she is an initiate as well as a doctor in her own right, she is utterly fascinated by what happened to her, because I sat right by her side, yet she is convinced she was elsewhere.... -
"Is there any indication that the ancient people using as a symbol for the pineal, or is this merely a modern projection onto their ideas? I'd be interested in seeing the hard evidence."
I dont quite understand what you are asking.
I do know that many, many of our most sacred and ancient rituals seemingly bet on this fact.
Btw, I clarified. Because I believe that it is our lungs, our heart and our mind, in tandem that create these chemicals....
I like being in the mystery of things, so I am not one to demand proof, Ill just eat my pudding
-
@Frater Potater said
"
@Veronica said
"what she did recall, her near death expierences are very similiar to the reports i have read on dmt, and dmt usage"Several people have reported similar accounts. My own experiences agree as well. It certainly would make sense - that there is a physiological mechanism, or biochemical, action that is behind NDE's, OBE's, and other phenomena.
It certainly doesn't confirm the objective existence of aliens or elves.@Veronica said
"I dont quite understand what you are asking."
Sorry that was poorly articulated and written in haste.
I meant that the ancient people had no way of knowing what DMT is. The wiki article says they chose the staff/cone as a symbol of fertility. Is there any evidence that they chose it based on their understanding of anatomy? Is there any link in antiquity between the function of the pineal gland, and symbolism of dionysus?"We dont know that they had no way of knowing, there is no proof
Maybe some neaderthal got his head smashed open, and they saw it little thing, which looked like a mini pine cone, and they ate it and tripped out...
Had visions of gods, and then came down to earth sober and decided that eating mini pine cones was the best thing life had to offer, so they built up a whole civilization about getting more, about the blessed pinecone and its magic powers. And maybe over time some who had eaten the pine cone, found they felt the same way when they had really awsome Union, and started looking into ways to tantrically stimulate their own pine cones, instead of slaves....Just running with in....
I personally think most wiki articles can not be trusted, Journals, periodicals, books, and teachers are better. While a pine cone is a very fertile symbol, their are many other simpler symbols which could be used, and the point that a pine cone was choosen over so many others, seems to imply an almost animistic understanding of symbology and what a pinecone could imply to a human, as compared to Squirrel who sees a pine cone staff as lunch.
-
@ThelemicMage said
"Faust, might I ask you of your perspective and opinion of adding atropine alkaloid containing plants to the aya brew?
What say you?"Of course you can. I am just afraid that I might say something that you would not like to hear.
Antropine alkaloid can easily get you killed, especially because the concentration of alkaloid can vary very much during the year. The adrenergic discharge that comes with the poisoning can be the principal source of its bad trip effect.
To tell the truth most shamans I know are full of bull****. Since they usually have little training most of them become highly superstitious and paranoiac, creating a lot of theories that in the end are only reflections of their very confusing astral experiences.
It is my opinion that there is little difference between most hallucinogenic drugs, basically all they do is to open the astral in one way or another. Choosing one would be a question of personal taste.
Just something about DMT and biochemistry. It is not drug that is hallucinogenic, it is the receptor in the brain. Almost all neurotransmitters are potential hallucinogenic, there is nothing special about DMT.
-
Hearing that. I would agree with you except for one point:
If DMT is looked at under a microscope, and how it fits exactly into 5-HT2 receptors, it contains everything about every other endogenous serotonic neurotransmitter, but combined and evolved into a completely stand-alone, no-need to mess with serotonin, molecule.
Just FYI.
Have you ever noticed how some shamans say that the "elves", or the spirits of the ayahuasca are not inherently "good", and that they need to be compelled to be good?
Some sing to them, the songs of the rainforest and the land. Some go through elaborate rituals including fasting and purging themselves so the spirits don't get "binded" up in the body/mind during the experience. Kind of sounds unneeded for spirits that will eventually jump in and out of your chest to wake you up, but I only eat plants anyways and don't drink that much. No lust of killing in me, save for my own survival intuition, and I wouldn't call that "Lust". Maybe it's different for meat-eaters?
Sexual abstinence is part of the fasting process, which I do not agree with, unless a certain situation or needed experience asks for it.
For instance, I understand that sexual abstinence increases energy for astral projection.
-
Oh, and I must counter you argument that all hallucinogens are the same:
The main-line "real" hallucinogens that make one vastly and visually aware of electromagnetic lines of power in the Earth and space, and give you the same with others' auras, even animals, are all 5-HT2, (serotonin), receptor agonists. This compels one to believe that they are for the purpose of awareness and sensory.
All alkaloids from the Datura family are in a completely different class. They are competitive antagonists for the muscarinic acetylcholine receptor. This is why Datura must be consumed in large amounts for hallucinogenic effect, and is why they give delirium when would-be initiates attempt to do this.
Some situations are terribly intense with this stuff if not used right.
I will also counter the idea that all hallucinogens are the same, by stating that LSD, Mushrooms, DMT and Mescaline have never killed a single human being by overdose, which can happen very easily with tropane alkaloids.
I don't think they've really killed anyone, when one looks at the facts: The people who "jumped out of windows trying to fly" were all in buildings owned by the CIA. It's a pretty good trick actually. Give an unsuspecting human a drug with VAST applications in awareness and Magic, wait until they have no idea what's going on, then throw them out of the window into the street.
This is WELL-documented, and makes my stomach turn when I read and hear of it.
Do a search for MK-ultra. The people who headed this $hit up actually admitted to all this and made the statement that they were untouchable. They still are!