The Ordeal of the Siren.
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93's, all.
For those who passed that particular test... What were the characteristics of a "Siren" as opposed to a good friend and true lover for you in retrospect?
Also, is this Ordeal universal to all Probationers/aspirants? -
Neophytes, not Probationers.
I think some form of it confronts everyone, though it isn't so obvious in some cases. It's the ordeal of the Q'lippah of Malkuth, Lilith.
Some of the characteristics: You are drawn away from the work and/or are drawn away from authenticity to yourself.
Basically, you act like your desire nature is bigger than you are.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Neophytes, not Probationers.
"Thank you for the correction. The section on Sirens from Liber Aleph is displayed in the Probationer section of the informational website for the lineage I'm going through, so I think I mistook that as meaning it was a specifically Probationer concern.
@Jim Eshelman said"I think some form of it confronts everyone, though it isn't so obvious in some cases. It's the ordeal of the Q'lippah of Malkuth, Lilith.
Some of the characteristics: You are drawn away from the work and/or are drawn away from authenticity to yourself.
Basically, you act like your desire nature is bigger than you are."
Sharp. I've certainly tread that line so I will keep this in mind.
Thank you again. -
Probationers are always given the chance to betray the Order. That's their challenge.
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Yeah. Run off in ecstatic and creative bliss with a Daughter of Earth made just for me, or renounce all and enter into a path of total solitude and uncertainty.
Straight from The Odyssey, man!
Letting that dream slip away feels like the sharpest sting conceivable. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Probationers are always given the chance to betray the Order. That's their challenge."
Hmm, that's interesting. What would qualify as betraying the Order? Simply abandoning the work?
Love is the law, love under will.
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@Ethar said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"Probationers are always given the chance to betray the Order. That's their challenge."
Hmm, that's interesting. What would qualify as betraying the Order? Simply abandoning the work?
Love is the law, love under will."
Could be anything, my own involved people trying to convince me that my Branch of A.'.A.'. was a 'fake', and trying to get me to renounce it in order to join their own Branch which they posited as the 'real' A.'.A.'.
As for the other, anything that distracts you from the work at the critical juncture of 1=10 could be a siren, but usually this would be a lover, or someone that excites the Nephesh, causing it to inflate and take over, often this will be a human lover though. In my own case it was so insidious that I can fully understand why so many fall at this point. Often its not that you are forced away from the work, but you get so distracted by your new lover that you stop doing the work and start spending all of your time with/thinking about your lover, rather than your aspiration.
Here's a good blog on the matter.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Thank you for your example.
I read your link.
But, wow, this Neophyte ordeal seems to mean business, huh? I get it pretty well, I guess, but I can't help but wonder if this means one "can't" have a relationship at that point of the journey. And I know I'm getting too deep into something that is not exact science, but what could happen, for example, if the Neophyte already had a lover or whatever before the initiation proper?
I think I'm being silly, but hey, this is really interesting.
Love is the law, love under will.
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93
I'm in a relationship myself, and I'm well into that stage, although I'll admit that it was distracting at first, as all new relationships are, I eventually got it in perspective and I didn't let it stop me in my tracks, that I think is the important thing.
I won't go into grizzly details but I'll say that the circumstances of that relationship are such that we don't get to see each other much and lead very separate lives at the moment, and we are both highly driven individuals, her by her own interests, and me by mine (i.e. my grade work).The thing is, these ordeals are in place in order to weed out the spiritual tourists who will leave off the work as soon as they get distracted by a pretty face.
I liken it to the Parzifal story; whereas Amfortas gave in to the Siren and was thus wounded by his own lance, Klingsor, perceiving the danger, withdrew himself completely, but in this he became emasculate. so both approaches are wrong, and destroy the aspirant eventually.
The correct path is that which Parzival took, the middle road, to claim the lance as ones own and to use it as is lawful (Liber legis 1:52 and elsewhere).
In my view, it may be useful for the Neophyte to withdraw him/herself from that arena for a while, but to deny it utterly is to deny love itself, so you may as well cut your balls off, it would represent failure, on the other hand, you could just follow where your nephesh leads you, and spend your life running in circles.
I have seen lots of people do this, a classic example is the guy who gives up his passions/religious beliefs/whatever in order to marry some woman (it can be the other way around too!) only to find years later that he/she has sold there soul for something utterly unworthy. At this point there may still be a choice, either leave the Siren and try to get back to your path, or try to forget that you once had a dream/aspiration.
The problem for an A.'.A.'. neophyte is the once only rule; if you leave off the work because of this, then in all likelihood you will lose contact with the Order, failure from this particular ordeal accounts for a huge amount of aspirants.
I think Jerry put the failure rate at about 9/10 or thereabouts.
Wouldn't you just hate to be part of that statistic? -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Thanks!
Interestingly, a few minutes after that post I kind of realized this by myself. Simply put, I won't fail. It's hard to explain. But you put into words pretty much what I was thinking. (What was worrying me was the thought that these things would be out of my control, when the point is exactly being in control. lol)
Love is the law, love under will.
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@Ethar said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Thanks!
Interestingly, a few minutes after that post I kind of realized this by myself. Simply put, I won't fail. It's hard to explain. But you put into words pretty much what I was thinking. (What was worrying me was the thought that these things would be out of my control, when the point is exactly being in control. lol)
Love is the law, love under will."
I think that's the whole point, control, do you allow Nephesh to take the driving seat, as tempting as that may be
Or do you continue on the path you have chosen as an act of Will?One amusing excuse I have seen a few times, is that maybe its a persons "Will" to leave of the work to "toy with old pleasures". In which case all you can do is sigh and let people follow there delusions.
But I agree with you completely about your feeling, I will not fail, and I think that anyone who has taken their oaths sincerely will also feel this.
Pretty tough system huh? But actually I wouldn't have it any other way.
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@Archaeus said
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@Ethar said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.@Jim Eshelman said
"Probationers are always given the chance to betray the Order. That's their challenge."
Hmm, that's interesting. What would qualify as betraying the Order? Simply abandoning the work?
Love is the law, love under will."
Could be anything, my own involved people trying to convince me that my Branch of A.'.A.'. was a 'fake', and trying to get me to renounce it in order to join their own Branch which they posited as the 'real' A.'.A.'."
That's interesting, this same kind of "temptation" happened to me in a different way. I started to pursue every kind of lineage looking for the "right one", until I realized that what really matters is my own Work. No lineage would make me attain if I did not do my own Work, not even Crowley himself. I have seen others falling in the same point. Some of them changed to new lineages, others simply left all A.'.A.'. working saying the Order is not active anymore.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"I think that's the whole point, control, do you allow Nephesh to take the driving seat, as tempting as that may be
Or do you continue on the path you have chosen as an act of Will?"I think we both know the answer to that question.
"One amusing excuse I have seen a few times, is that maybe its a persons "Will" to leave of the work to "toy with old pleasures". In which case all you can do is sigh and let people follow there delusions."
Quite funny. If people can give excuses to not do the most important work of their lives (after they made that decision), then they can give excuses about pretty much everything.
"But I agree with you completely about your feeling, I will not fail, and I think that anyone who has taken their oaths sincerely will also feel this."
This!
"Pretty tough system huh? But actually I wouldn't have it any other way."
Neither would I. Actually, it should be tougher. Okay, maybe not.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@Alan Willms said
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That's interesting, this same kind of "temptation" happened to me in a different way. I started to pursue every kind of lineage looking for the "right one", until I realized that what really matters is my own Work. No lineage would make me attain if I did not do my own Work, not even Crowley himself. I have seen others falling in the same point. Some of them changed to new lineages, others simply left all A.'.A.'. working saying the Order is not active anymore."
That's exactly what I figured out at the time, and experience has shown it to be the case, whatever 'lineage' you join, its the work you put in, and the sincerity that you bring to the work that really matters, and in the end it is that which will bring you through the ordeal.
Once I stopped worrying and got on with the work I realized this, those who worry about lineage usually seem to be nursing insecurities, these insecurities disappear once you get past a certain point.I have also known people who wait outside the door because they are not sure that the lineage they have contacted is the 'real' A.'.A.'.
As it say's in the equinox, the purpose of ordeals is two-fold; to select adepts, and to screen out the unfit, the spiritual tourists and the egomaniacs.
In short: The A.'.A.'. crowns the work, and one's connection with one's HGA is the only thing that is essential.
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93's.
Helpful talk, guys. Somewhere along the line, reading the works of strong men and women beyond their egos and knowing the terms and mechanisms they used to reach that state from a purely intellectual perspective convinced me that I was just like them, beyond my own ego and a partaker of a fuller reality than that of my peers, even though I had done little more work towards that goal than take drugs, buy books, and feed off of my own overactive intellect. This arose, I think, from a dangerous tendency to associate with my surroundings rather than with my own real state of doing(such escapism was instigated by early abuse, I've come to understand), which was definitely exacerbated by the drugs. Then, I came to see myself as deserving of one of such physical and spiritual beauty as who I suspect to be the Kundrie of my life and declared her the prize awarded to me for supposedly understanding so much, the Scarlet Woman put in my life to help me manifest changes in the world. Plain and simple, I adopted a false crown, and realizing this has been intensely painful; It's letting go of every little childish hope I ever had up to this my 18th year. Takes more strength than I realized, so I commend you all for your steadfastness.
I'll be working towards the same. -
We were not talking about OTO. Most people never get invited beyond MoE anyway, so for most people what you speak of is theoretical.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Yeah, I refrained from posting further here because of this. lol But I think it can apply to any order or initiation journey.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@Dara Allarah said
"1) All groups are 'group kundrys'.
That's not theoretical, and it applies equally to everyone who participates in them. They're kissing the group kundry, and they can easily be seduced away from their will by the group."
A very firm point that I certainly feel as having truth. I think the kundry is more so in the association with the group rather than the using of the group's methods, seeing the ability to label oneself a brother or sister of the A.'.A.'. or O.T.O. as an attainment in itself and taking off your armor prematurely is where the pitfall is, I think.
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I was going to post something about my own experience regarding this, but I forsee that Dar is about to pick a fight and a little voice told me to can it, so instead I will simply quote Liber al:
"Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any!"
al III:46 -
The error of this sort of thinking is that it presupposes that existing ONLY as an individual, outside of connection context, is both possible and desirable. IOW it's one more example of being stuck in Hadit-mindedness and forgetting that CCXX has a chapter 1.
We exist BOTH as individuals and as a single, connected organism with a single mind. That's not only "what's so, it's also the ideal. Ra-Hoor-Khuit comes alive when conceived by BOTH parents, not just as his father's son.
So group participation is a matter of picking a PARTICULAR kind of group mind that is committed to and compatible with your goals. The most effective and self-actualized individuals as adults usually come from the most connected, loving families. The Order, rightly conceived, contacted, and executed, provides this type of selective context.