entity names in the bornless ritual
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hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas? -
hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?so its just random words in greek? no meaning whatsoever?
Or is it one of those ABRAHADABRA things wit cabalistic meaning -
hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?@pile_of_graemle said
"so its just random words in greek? no meaning whatsoever?
Or is it one of those ABRAHADABRA things wit cabalistic meaning"ABRAHADABRA thing for sure.
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hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?@pile_of_graemle said
"so its just random words in greek? no meaning whatsoever?
Or is it one of those ABRAHADABRA things wit cabalistic meaning"93
I believe its either or. The "non sensical" words are meant to cause a sort of trance-like state or otherwise cause a change in consciousness. Crowley changed them to have qabalistic meaning, but they can also be meaningless. The strange sounds themselves giving one an impression.
93 93/93
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hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?Some of the words (a few) are clearly identifiable with specific meaning. The others... while I wouldn't say they have a literal meaning, they were likely constructed on specific magical principles. The Greeks especially created "barbarous words" out of long strings of vowels, finding God in the vowels. Pronouncing these has visceral effect, affects the breathing, lets the mind run down certain paths. In Liber Samekh, Crowley gave Qabalistic interpretation to each of the words (that's the stuff in quotes - which isn't part of the ritual, just his commentary).
"Barbarous" in "barbarous words" means "babble" - incomprehensible - no meaning a person can make out. We get "barbarian" the word from Old Italian and Latin sources. It most neutrally means "foreign." Foreign armies coming over the mountains to invade were speaking in tongues no one could make it, so they were deemed "babbling."
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hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?@Jim Eshelman said
"Some of the words (a few) are clearly identifiable with specific meaning. The others... while I wouldn't say they have a literal meaning, they were likely constructed on specific magical principles. The Greeks especially created "barbarous words" out of long strings of vowels, finding God in the vowels. Pronouncing these has visceral effect, affects the breathing, lets the mind run down certain paths. In Liber Samekh, Crowley gave Qabalistic interpretation to each of the words (that's the stuff in quotes - which isn't part of the ritual, just his commentary).
"Barbarous" in "barbarous words" means "babble" - incomprehensible - no meaning a person can make out. We get "barbarian" the word from Old Italian and Latin sources. It most neutrally means "foreign." Foreign armies coming over the mountains to invade were speaking in tongues no one could make it, so they were deemed "babbling.""
Jim, is it possible to "receive" a word that may have no qabalistic meaning itself, but simply a evocative power? In other words having no basis in reason, only Neshemah? A word like a Barbarous name, meaningless in itself except for its visceral effect?
93 93/93
J -
hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?@J L Romer said
"Jim, is it possible to "receive" a word that may have no qabalistic meaning itself, but simply a evocative power? In other words having no basis in reason, only Neshemah? A word like a Barbarous name, meaningless in itself except for its visceral effect?"
I'm tempted to say Yes... then I hesitate. Any word with intrinsic meaning and especially if that meaning is only Neshamic) is going to have inherent Qabalistic characteristics. (I dispute the implied position thaty "Qabalistic meaning" is necessarily a "basis in reason.")
Even words that have only a visceral quality (they stir something in you through their tie to the body's reactions)are as "Qabalistic" as anything else - even more so. In fact, simply pronouncing one of the Hebrew letters, at length or repeatedly, stirs response. So you could "receive" a visceral word that was just "Nnnnnnnnnnnnn" and it would have one kind of inherent quality that would be very different from receiving "Oooooooooooooooo." (And, of course, more complex examples fall in this also).
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hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas? -
hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas? -
hiya there
I have a question to ask about Crowley's Bornless ritual (period)
(sorry about that! my period key is broken at the moment)Does anyone here know of the origins of the invoked elemental names in Crowleys version of the Ritual? I know he based it of the Abramelin but I have been able to find any references as to what the names actually mean (period)
Anyone have any ideas?@gmugmble said
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@J L Romer said
"Jim, is it possible to "receive" a word that may have no qabalistic meaning itself, but simply a evocative power?"Bahlasti! Ompehda!"
That's a lot of evocative power.
Additionally:
BAHLAShTY = 358
OMPHDA = 200
