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Thoughts on Thelemic Government

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Thelema
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    pad631
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #42

    Basically everyone is his own master. If someone gets sick and tired of everything one can easily leave his body.

    Look life of Gandhi as an example. He has won one pretty big government at that time.
    In his later years he often slept through the night,
    with lots of young women but not for sex, but the energy that eluded him in those years.
    This brings the issue of sex in the new government, I believe.

    And basically the government is our true enemy, if they put me in jail, for example,because I have not paid taxes.
    Despite the fact that simultaneously is our friend too,in some circumstances.

    Thelemic government would be the same one, only instead of politicians
    comes Thelema as a way of governance.
    Basically we already have partialy such government.No one has to be initiated into the OTO or similar ranks to become the Telemit. Just should be followed by true beliefs.

    In Magic the shadow is latently dangerous place.
    Thelema along with freedom also brings other elements.

    But I, like many others have nothing to do with any government directly,
    and that is, I believe our luck.

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    Smokey Monking
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #43

    What a great film is The Wicker Man, for fucks sake. I just thought that it would fit great in the thread, as a sort of example of pagan or somewhat modern utopy, not exactly thelemic, but similar somehow.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLi4v8evJM

    By the way, when we will could see a movie about the Abadie of Thelema? It would be time for a decent Crowley cinema adaptation or biopic, the most references parts I´ve seen are pure bullshit.

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    Shadow Self
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #44

    Wicker Man isn't a utopia. I mean, the poor guy. Sure, he is an outsider and everything, but still, the idea of sacrificing him doesn't make a lot of sense. Basically, the entire perception of Thelema to outsiders that it is based on the idea that its like wicker man, except maybe with women rather than men (or perhaps someone of either gender)

    Most people don't believe in magick, but they do believe in mundane things like human sacrifices. So, the whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense when filtered through that perception. I mean, the ancient Egyptians sacrificed people when the Pharaoh died. We should not over look that.

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    Smokey Monking
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #45

    I don´t meant exactly to the sacrifice, but the life on the island the cop is seeing along the movie, etc. It isn´t an utopia, clearly, in fact most of the things are taken from european pagan traditions still alive in that moment, but the idea of the island like an independent place with his own laws and so on fits with that idea. The sacrifice thing it´s the only thing that turns things to the superstition and makes you questioning all you have seen, until that moment, all ok.

    The recent movie The Cabin in the Woods touch the theme of the sacrifice very well too, making a relationship between old aeonic sacrifice and governamental control over the mankind. Very similar to the end of The Wicker Man in some sense, with sacrifices and suffering and complex rituals (as victims do it by their "own choice") to appease the wrath of the Ancient Gods and so on, with the excuse of "to save mankind".

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    Smokey Monking
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #46

    I was thinking that the similarities between The Wicker Man and THe Cabin in the Woods could be more than the most evidents of the sacrifice and the social ritual thing, but they would be difficult to explain without enter in too much details and so on. I only would say that I think that "The Cabin" goes much far away and have a more radical conclusion (and sort of surprising coming from a superproduction): that better is the destruction of the whole human race by it´s own destructive old essence, than the perpetuation of a lie based on the "management" of suffering by a social elite, for try to appease the wrath of that Ancient Gods, the old destructive essence of the human being.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #47

    I agree that the following is just about as Thelemic a statement as I've ever read:

    "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution..."

    (Do you see the Qabalistic pattern btw... the six ideas centered around Tiphereth?)

    It's all in the implementation then. And one must admit that after 200+ years there is still tweaking required.

    But when compared to the whole course of human history, it has still been enormous progress, a platform for going further. (Churchill, of course, always comes to mind in this regard.)

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    Smokey Monking
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #48

    The mad men of a lot of countries envy you yankees for your facility for to have guns. The second amedment, in fact, had originally the purpouse of take care of the population if the government would became corrupt. That way people could defense themselves from opression and so on. I don´t remember the details, but that was the essence, anyway I suppose that it´s well knowed thing. Today there´s the discussion about the fire weapons, but well the thing has got much more complicated than in the past, or that it seems.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #49

    @kasper81 said

    "Churchill was an elitist i.e. fascist so I don't get that reference."

    Churchill: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

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    Uni_Verse
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #50

    Looking far into the future, the shackle of the peoples shall be their imagination
    The only limiting factor among a succession of infinities
    Moving, along the current, of ideas as the highest priced commodity
    Where economies no longer flow outward, inward
    Through the center, the hearts of the people
    Spawning lovely flowers of dark & dreadful hues
    In virtual temples they gather, to mutter platitudes
    While their great god remains silent in solitude
    Students caught in the rapture vicarious
    They need not meditate, He meditates for them
    THE BLISSFUL DISPORA
    Final gift of the Human Instrumentality Project

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #51

    Since I introduced him to the conversation, I thought you were asking for clarification on what I meant. I was referring directly to that quote.

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    Bereshith
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #52

    @Jim Eshelman said

    "I agree that the following is just about as Thelemic a statement as I've ever read:

    "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution..."

    (Do you see the Qabalistic pattern btw... the six ideas centered around Tiphereth?)

    "

    Though it seems to have been completely overlooked, I find this fascinating.

    I see the six, but I have a hard time distinguishing their direct correspondences to either the planetary hexagram or to the sephiroth.

    Do you see direct correspondences in the statements? And if so, would you mind listing them?

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #53

    to form a more perfect union = Y'sod
    (cohesiveness of mass-mind, connection at level of subconsciousness)

    to establish justice = Hod
    (the least persuasive, but an easy enough fit when all the others fit: codification, a series of laws - an old usage wherein Hod receives from Diyn)

    to insure domestic tranquility = Netzach, of course

    to provide for the common defense = Geboorah, of course

    to promote the general welfare = Hesed, of course

    to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity = Biynah, of course

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    Bereshith
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #54

    Man... Even just right up the Tree in order like that...

    Fascinating.

    Thank you.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #55

    @kasper81 said

    "how is Netzach domestic tranquillity? or Hod justice? or liberty Binah?"

    Netzach is Venus.

    Hod... I explained specifically.

    Biynah is inherently liberty - that's the spiritual experience of the grade. But more pointedly, the underlying character motivation of Saturn is personal autonomy. Think of it in the "leave me the F alone to do my own thing" sort of way. (It's a planet of governance, but, when owned, that makes it self-governance.)

    BTW, if it makes you feel better (or bring it to a simpler framework), don't think of the sefiyroth so much as the planets Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. (Better?)

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    pile_of_graemle
    replied to Anonymous on last edited by
    #56

    @Rudolf Steiner said

    "If you go back to ancient times - who were the governing types then? Initiates. The Egyptian Pharaohs, the Babylonian rulers, the Asiatic rulers - they were initiates. Then the priest-type emerged as ruler and the priest-type was really the ruler right up to the Reformation and the Renaissance. Since that time the economist has been in command. Rulers are in fact merely the handymen, the understrappers of the economists.One must not imagine that the rulers of modern times are anything but the understrappers of the economists. And all that has resulted by way of law and justice — one should only study it carefully — is simply a consequence of what economically oriented men have thought. In the nineteenth century the “economical” man is replaced for the first time by the man thinking in terms of banking, and in the nineteenth century there is created for the first time the organization of finance which swamps every other relationship. One must only be able to look into these things and follow them up empirically and practically. “
    "

    the blind leading the blind!!!

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