Thoughts on Thelemic Government
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty? -
What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?@danica said
"I see a tendency among some here to view the Government as something outside which essentially acts as an enemy to personal freedom.
do you govern yourself, individual? if so, than no outside government is an enemy or a threat."
Depends of the context. I don´t know exactly what are you referring to, but well, in an ideal world, ok, no government and lollipops for everybody. But in the world of today, what you say sounds pretty vain and cliche, and it´s inevitably that it leaves you aside of that same governments, who precisely wants you to pray the same God who is fuking humanity, and drop off your individuality and join to the most non-dangerous crowd mentality of apolitical people. And have a political position doesn´t really mean to play with the rules that they bring us, choosing A, B, or even C, and discuss over them, but to learn to think for oneself and be aware of the dynamics of dirty power presents everywhere, and what to do with them from your most deep convictions.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty? -
What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Government, at this point in time, seems to exist as people are too lazy to govern themselves.
There seems to be an entire culture of "passing the blame" on to someone else.
If is all way something "outside" which they are "helpless" against that is destroying them.So, I entirely agree with Danica (if I am reading properly):
When people begin to govern themselves, government as an institution will no longer be required.I have all ways kind of avoided these "Thelemic Government" thread, as essentially what I would seek to create is a utopian spiritual oligarchy.
Where in theory, each person in government would be required to sacrifice their ego, parts of their Self, in order to become an embodiment of the people they govern (kind of how it is suppose to happen anyway).
"Stan" ceases to be "Stan" and transmutes him self into "Texas" or "England" what have you...Power is nothing more than the shadow of responsibility.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Government isn't just about enforcing behaviors. It's also about cooperating, and taking advantages of economies of scale, so we can use our resources more efficiently.
I would expect that as we mature, and need less behavior enforcement, we'll increasingly rely on government bureaucracy.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?@Uni_Verse said
"Government, at this point in time, seems to exist as people are too lazy to govern themselves.
There seems to be an entire culture of "passing the blame" on to someone else.
If is all way something "outside" which they are "helpless" against that is destroying them.So, I entirely agree with Danica (if I am reading properly):
When people begin to govern themselves, government as an institution will no longer be required.I have all ways kind of avoided these "Thelemic Government" thread, as essentially what I would seek to create is a utopian spiritual oligarchy.
Where in theory, each person in government would be required to sacrifice their ego, parts of their Self, in order to become an embodiment of the people they govern (kind of how it is suppose to happen anyway).
"Stan" ceases to be "Stan" and transmutes him self into "Texas" or "England" what have you...Power is nothing more than the shadow of responsibility."
Again, I suppose you are talking hypotethically, about an ideal or utopian world, because if you are talking about the actual world, kid, I don´t know in what world you live, you have must lived in a bubble or something all your life.
"Laziness", good theory, the people who daily would have to go to the street and burn it, they doesn´t do it because of "laziness". I totally agree, because they have very good reasons for to do such thing.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Basically everyone is his own master. If someone gets sick and tired of everything one can easily leave his body.
Look life of Gandhi as an example. He has won one pretty big government at that time.
In his later years he often slept through the night,
with lots of young women but not for sex, but the energy that eluded him in those years.
This brings the issue of sex in the new government, I believe.And basically the government is our true enemy, if they put me in jail, for example,because I have not paid taxes.
Despite the fact that simultaneously is our friend too,in some circumstances.Thelemic government would be the same one, only instead of politicians
comes Thelema as a way of governance.
Basically we already have partialy such government.No one has to be initiated into the OTO or similar ranks to become the Telemit. Just should be followed by true beliefs.In Magic the shadow is latently dangerous place.
Thelema along with freedom also brings other elements.But I, like many others have nothing to do with any government directly,
and that is, I believe our luck. -
What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?What a great film is The Wicker Man, for fucks sake. I just thought that it would fit great in the thread, as a sort of example of pagan or somewhat modern utopy, not exactly thelemic, but similar somehow.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLi4v8evJM
By the way, when we will could see a movie about the Abadie of Thelema? It would be time for a decent Crowley cinema adaptation or biopic, the most references parts I´ve seen are pure bullshit.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Wicker Man isn't a utopia. I mean, the poor guy. Sure, he is an outsider and everything, but still, the idea of sacrificing him doesn't make a lot of sense. Basically, the entire perception of Thelema to outsiders that it is based on the idea that its like wicker man, except maybe with women rather than men (or perhaps someone of either gender)
Most people don't believe in magick, but they do believe in mundane things like human sacrifices. So, the whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense when filtered through that perception. I mean, the ancient Egyptians sacrificed people when the Pharaoh died. We should not over look that.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?I don´t meant exactly to the sacrifice, but the life on the island the cop is seeing along the movie, etc. It isn´t an utopia, clearly, in fact most of the things are taken from european pagan traditions still alive in that moment, but the idea of the island like an independent place with his own laws and so on fits with that idea. The sacrifice thing it´s the only thing that turns things to the superstition and makes you questioning all you have seen, until that moment, all ok.
The recent movie The Cabin in the Woods touch the theme of the sacrifice very well too, making a relationship between old aeonic sacrifice and governamental control over the mankind. Very similar to the end of The Wicker Man in some sense, with sacrifices and suffering and complex rituals (as victims do it by their "own choice") to appease the wrath of the Ancient Gods and so on, with the excuse of "to save mankind".
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?I was thinking that the similarities between The Wicker Man and THe Cabin in the Woods could be more than the most evidents of the sacrifice and the social ritual thing, but they would be difficult to explain without enter in too much details and so on. I only would say that I think that "The Cabin" goes much far away and have a more radical conclusion (and sort of surprising coming from a superproduction): that better is the destruction of the whole human race by it´s own destructive old essence, than the perpetuation of a lie based on the "management" of suffering by a social elite, for try to appease the wrath of that Ancient Gods, the old destructive essence of the human being.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?I agree that the following is just about as Thelemic a statement as I've ever read:
"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution..."
(Do you see the Qabalistic pattern btw... the six ideas centered around Tiphereth?)
It's all in the implementation then. And one must admit that after 200+ years there is still tweaking required.
But when compared to the whole course of human history, it has still been enormous progress, a platform for going further. (Churchill, of course, always comes to mind in this regard.)
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?The mad men of a lot of countries envy you yankees for your facility for to have guns. The second amedment, in fact, had originally the purpouse of take care of the population if the government would became corrupt. That way people could defense themselves from opression and so on. I don´t remember the details, but that was the essence, anyway I suppose that it´s well knowed thing. Today there´s the discussion about the fire weapons, but well the thing has got much more complicated than in the past, or that it seems.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?@kasper81 said
"Churchill was an elitist i.e. fascist so I don't get that reference."
Churchill: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Looking far into the future, the shackle of the peoples shall be their imagination
The only limiting factor among a succession of infinities
Moving, along the current, of ideas as the highest priced commodity
Where economies no longer flow outward, inward
Through the center, the hearts of the people
Spawning lovely flowers of dark & dreadful hues
In virtual temples they gather, to mutter platitudes
While their great god remains silent in solitude
Students caught in the rapture vicarious
They need not meditate, He meditates for them
THE BLISSFUL DISPORA
Final gift of the Human Instrumentality Project -
What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?Since I introduced him to the conversation, I thought you were asking for clarification on what I meant. I was referring directly to that quote.
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?@Jim Eshelman said
"I agree that the following is just about as Thelemic a statement as I've ever read:
"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution..."
(Do you see the Qabalistic pattern btw... the six ideas centered around Tiphereth?)
"
Though it seems to have been completely overlooked, I find this fascinating.
I see the six, but I have a hard time distinguishing their direct correspondences to either the planetary hexagram or to the sephiroth.
Do you see direct correspondences in the statements? And if so, would you mind listing them?
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?to form a more perfect union = Y'sod
(cohesiveness of mass-mind, connection at level of subconsciousness)to establish justice = Hod
(the least persuasive, but an easy enough fit when all the others fit: codification, a series of laws - an old usage wherein Hod receives from Diyn)to insure domestic tranquility = Netzach, of course
to provide for the common defense = Geboorah, of course
to promote the general welfare = Hesed, of course
to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity = Biynah, of course
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What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty? -
What are your thoughts on how to integrate Law of Thelema into western culture toward the governing of a Thelemic Nation on the world stage.
Using America or UK as a launching platform for the revolution. Let's say there is a global catastrophe that wipes out half the world's population, destroys the economy and infrastructure, depletes military resources, forcing the West to rebuild society. Let's pretend the presidential figure in charge at the time understands Thelema and wants to rebuild America ensuring True Liberty for real this time. How will that work?
How would you change the way the Federal Government operates in order to permit Thelemic Culture?
Or, to make the question simpler, let's say you had your own private island nation with a million Thelemites.
How do you provide order of government while protecting individual liberty?@kasper81 said
"how is Netzach domestic tranquillity? or Hod justice? or liberty Binah?"
Netzach is Venus.
Hod... I explained specifically.
Biynah is inherently liberty - that's the spiritual experience of the grade. But more pointedly, the underlying character motivation of Saturn is personal autonomy. Think of it in the "leave me the F alone to do my own thing" sort of way. (It's a planet of governance, but, when owned, that makes it self-governance.)
BTW, if it makes you feel better (or bring it to a simpler framework), don't think of the sefiyroth so much as the planets Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. (Better?)