Cohesion vs. Dispersion: An Exhortation
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@kasper81 said
"if someone seeks an escape from reality then practicing magick is the last thing they would do because it would bring them to reality..."
That seems to me to be the BEST reason to recommend they practice it
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Patrick Ossoski said
"I see Thelema (and Magick, by extension) as the antithesis to escapism. To me it's certainly been so."
@Jim Eshelman said
" kasper81 wrote:if someone seeks an escape from reality then practicing magick is the last thing they would do because it would bring them to reality...
That seems to me to be the BEST reason to recommend they practice it
"Agreed around. No way to un-see the Hawk-headed Lord.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Mephis said
"In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?"
Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?
@Mephis said
"How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?"
Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?
@Mephis said
"How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?"
Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Frater 639 said
"
@Mephis said
"How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?"Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"
No, but it might benefit from better posture.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
Frater 639...
Always here to poke beautiful holes.@Frater 639 said
"
Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm. Interesting experiment, perhaps... In my oh-pin-ion, an overzealous Christian can manifest them only in the sense that their madness highlights the applicability and virtue of its opposite in Thelema.
@Frater 639 said
"
Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides
@Frater 639 said
"Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?"
This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Diluvium said
"Frater 639... Always here to poke beautiful holes."
I LOVE TO POKE BEAUTIFUL HOLES. ESPECIALLY ONES WITH PERSONALITY.
@Diluvium said
"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm"
Yes. Of course it could. Saying anything else is in danger of one POV being superior?
@Diluvium said
"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides "
I think evolution takes care of itself regardless of hype.
@Diluvium said
"This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes "
Sometimes people mention Light but they usually mean their own version of it -- and then, they're quick to apply it to someone else.
@Jim Eshelman said
"No, but it might benefit from better posture."
Haha! "Better" could be a measurement of a biased perspective.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Frater 639 said
"
@Diluvium said
"Frater 639... Always here to poke beautiful holes."I LOVE TO POKE BEAUTIFUL HOLES. ESPECIALLY ONES WITH PERSONALITY.
@Diluvium said
"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm"
Yes. Of course it could. Saying anything else is in danger of one POV being superior?
@Diluvium said
"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides "
I think evolution takes care of itself regardless of hype.
@Diluvium said
"This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes "
Sometimes people mention Light but they usually mean their own version of it -- and then, they're quick to apply it to someone else."
Okay, okay, you got me.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Frater 639 said
"Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?"
If her name happened to be Emily Bertha Bishop.
"Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"
No, but it might vote Republican.
"Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?"
Yes, but some have "eyes that are but little covered in dust."
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
I bristle at the concept of proselytizing and "converting" people, just on general principles. That seems to be the ultimate interference with someone's will, Thelemite or not. And, we all know it: Thelema is not for everyone, and in fact, I don't believe it's for most people. Most people don't have the self-awareness and have no interest in nor capability of taking responsibility for oneself that Thelema requires. Christianity is so prevalent because it's so easy to "give it all to god," and "let jesus take the wheel," and BOOM! you're off the hook.
I certainly agree that we are examples in the way we live our lives and practice our belief, and if someone comes to any of us and asks what it is we "are," then by all means, share with them. They'll know soon enough if they are up for the challenge. Thelema to me is new each day - because I'm continuously growing, learning new things, new ways of looking at life and at myself. Life would not be worth it without these daily renewals. Some people crave stasis and want no new ideas to interfere with their insulated, closed world. Thelema breaks down all those doors and forces you to face yourself - personally, I think that is the number one fear that people have and most never do, all their lives.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Mephis said
"If her name happened to be Emily Bertha Bishop."
Or Violet Firth and Mother Theresa. Hopefully still household names after the last armchair Thelemite dies off...
@Mephis said
"No, but it might vote Republican."
Haha! Funny.
Giraffes don't vote! Only sheep.
You'd be surprised -- most of the Animal Kingdom still believe in the Manipulative Memes that stem from the Distraction Dichotomy.
@Mephis said
"Yes, but some have "eyes that are but little covered in dust." "
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
-- Jesus of Tiphareth
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Frater 639 said
"Or Violet Firth and Mother Theresa. Hopefully still household names after the last armchair Thelemite dies off..."
Well, that's fine--I'm more of a barstool Thelemite anyways.
"You'd be surprised -- most of the Animal Kingdom still believe in the Manipulative Memes that stem from the Distraction Dichotomy.
"Which is why I remain a practicing carnivore.
""You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
-- Jesus of Tiphareth
"Plank=Luach=44
44 also gives us "to absorb/swallow up" and "garment/carpet," so, by reverse Aiq Bekar (applied to the M.A.L.A.R.K.Y. formula) I read this as a warning against carpet munching, nothing more.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
Regarding conversion the BOTL is very clear - "...argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" Reading this made me think of a scene in the move Malcom X where he was meeting with Elijah Muhammad. The mentor taught the student that people in general will take what is available to them. However, if they are given a choice then they'll choose what best fits them, what is most pure to them, what tastes better, etc. Possibly a key to this is making sure there is an avenue for this choice to be made if one is inclined to "spread the word" so to speak.
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Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this.
Now that the smoke has cleared we find "that which remains:" those truly dedicated to the manifestation of Thelemic principles here on lovely Terra Firma. It is to you that I address my question(s) and open a new dialogue:
In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?
How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?
How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?
Personally, I have realized through interaction with society as a whole and through interaction with other Thelemites (both in person and through forums such as this) that what is most needful in these infant years of Thelema is an attitude of cohesion and fraternal Love, and this must be manifest in each act of Will, be this act a passing gesture or a Ritual Working. For dispersion is the knight-errant of Choronzon.
I look forward to the cohesive and fraternal discussion that is to follow.
@Mephis said
"Well, that's fine--I'm more of a barstool Thelemite anyways. "
Nothing wrong with an arts degree. Is this an invitation for a drink?
@Mephis said
"Which is why I remain a practicing carnivore. "
Rare for NorCal. No pun intended.
@Mephis said
"44 also gives us "to absorb/swallow up" and "garment/carpet," so, by reverse Aiq Bekar (applied to the M.A.L.A.R.K.Y. formula) I read this as a warning against carpet munching, nothing more."
Advanced!
Christians always advise against the stuff that they love (i.e. judging others, carpet munching, etc.) -- they just usually need more secret codes to admit it after they've converted to Thelema, no?