Cohesion vs. Dispersion: An Exhortation
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@Mephis said
"Likewise. I was, of course, highly predisposed to the experience, as I'm sure you were"
Yes, yes... Hallucinogens had made their merry way into my life around the same time to amplify, and upon reflection my tendencies were practically screaming for it. I imagine that helps
Do you think it possible to reach those not so predisposed? All my attempts have led to existential frustration.@Mephis said
"Also, being a Musician myself, I am as yet utterly fascinated with the possibilities of bringing about transcendental metamorphosis through the Aural experience. What I find most exciting is the possibilities inherent in bringing together multiple media in a single format. I've been reading about the Rites of Eleusis as of late, and I find Crowley's staging of the Rites most interesting and inspiring. I feel that these Rites may have been a bit overt for the time, but then again Crowley himself was a bit overt for his time it appears.
"My friends and I have mused at the idea of a video game structured according to Golden Dawn initiation ceremonies; music, story, image, all rolled into one interactive experience. It has the potential!
But indeed, I can't think about Crowley's Rites of Eleusis without getting a big devilish grin slapped on my face. Does he discuss the performances in his journals anywhere(Jim?)? -
@Diluvium said
"Yes, yes... Hallucinogens had made their merry way into my life around the same time to amplify, and upon reflection my tendencies were practically screaming for it. I imagine that helps
Do you think it possible to reach those not so predisposed? All my attempts have led to existential frustration."Well, I was using the term "predisposed" to refer to my intellectual and moral development up to that point. I might just as well have used it in that fashion, however, given my "tendencies" in my formative years. You caught me!
I'd be a cad and a liar if I didn't say that the psychedelic experience opened pivotal doors (also windows, basements, shower curtains), and propelled me into a most rewarding study of mystic states during my early development. This was coupled, however, with in-depth studies of Yoga and Philosophy, so I had a firm basis to work on. There were some psychological train wrecks along the road as well, but these were also formative from the perspective of abstinence. I used to have a very "too much is enough!" attitude towards these things. As I mature, though, I find myself taking them less and less. Almost never, at the moment. Sh-t, I can't even remember to smoke herb every day anymore, and I even find myself contented after a couple beers.
Sigh I must be getting on in years.
In all seriousness, I feel that there is great--unparalleled--potential for these substances in a clinical setting. Research should be done and specific therapy regimins established for such wide-ranging applications as psycho-therapy, group communication, individual council, etc. At the moment, however, I know through painful personal experience the dangers of these substances to the unbalanced psyche. I've spoken about this at length in other posts, but my final analysis is this: learn to swim!
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@Mephis said
"recognizing this Devil for what it is, I took direct action--and banished the {â¢â¢â¢â¢â¢â¢}!"
Hear hear!
@Diluvium said
"Art. Effective art translates human experience,"
This is powerful and strikes me as spot on. My girlfriend is working on an article right now about how street art is transforming neighborhoods in downtown LA from razor wire enclaves to open air walking pavilions, prompting store owners to remove the dark paint from their windows and let the sun and views in. I think there's a lot like that to be done. And given that the language of the sub-consciousness is of sensual images, the media of "art" is rife with possibilities, symbolic and heuristic, for transformation. Also, the artistry of little things should be remembered, the ritualization of experience in the day-to-day, when instead of paintbrush or guitar, the personality serves as instrument. "[E]ver To me! To me!"
I also think that the intention to effect this transformation in the world will be met with support and enforcement on many levels, so that keeping the intention in mind and invoking guidance and strength from those who have gone before--Butler's Lords of Light, in a manner of speaking--is itself worthwhile.
I'm afraid, however, contrary to the youthful epiphany of my early experiences with, let's say, opened doors, that we can't spike the drinking fountains!
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@Mephis said
"Well, I think we will all agree that Thelemic "society" is at present rife with a more or less equal mixture of sincere students/seekers and crazed, repressed eccentrics "seeking in Magick an escape from reality." Others fall in between these two extremes. The meeting of these two polarities results in a conflict at times petty and juvenile, and at other times humorous beyond compare. Nothing represents this fact more than a public forum such as this. "
I appreciate the exhortation.
And how could I more accurately describe myself than someone who unexpectedly unleashed his "crazed, repressed eccentric" and yet is journeying to become more and more a "sincere student/seeker"?
I thought I would kill off "Bereshith," but what good would it do me? Shall I cut myself off from the minds to which I've become most accustomed journeying? Cut myself off from those who most understand? -who indeed know my history? -who indeed have experienced my failings and successes? Forgive the digression, but hiding my thoughts from the criticism of your minds does this poor scribe no service in his journey - nor you any service in your own.
So, I raise my glass for cohesion and its messy yet gratifying fruit!
"There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse."
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@Bereshith said
"And how could I more accurately describe myself than someone who unexpectedly unleashed his "crazed, repressed eccentric" and yet is journeying to become more and more a "sincere student/seeker"? "
You aren't the only one. Looking back on the past few years I sometimes cringe at the arrogant, ignorant tomfoolery with which I at times approached the world--and still do at times and to some extent. At the same time, being "put in my place," especially by those I deeply respect and admire, had a most positive and beneficial effect on my evolution--albeit a humbling effect.
"I thought I would kill off "Bereshith," but what good would it do me?"
Exactly: no good 'tall.
" Shall I cut myself off from the minds to which I've become most accustomed journeying? Cut myself off from those whom most understand? -whom indeed know my history? -whom indeed have experienced my failings and successes? Forgive the digression, but hiding my thoughts from the criticism of your minds does this poor scribe no service in his journey - nor you any service in your own. "
Nothing to forgive: you are quite right; whatever humiliations and lessons we've experienced on the path are simply minor upheavals in the grand scheme of things. Growing past this we are given a chance to adopt a different perspective: that of the "big picture." And once we realize that we are a cog in a larger wheel, so to speak, it enables us to move beyond what at times is a painfully self-conscious criticism of our lesser self, and we are empowered to embrace our Macrocosmic Self.
Approaching a forum like this from the perspective of mutual admonishment and growth is a powerful and effective way of transformation.
"So, I raise my glass for cohesion and its messy yet gratifying fruit!
"There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse.""
Cheers.
"My girlfriend is working on an article right now about how street art is transforming neighborhoods in downtown LA from razor wire enclaves to open air walking pavilions, prompting store owners to remove the dark paint from their windows and let the sun and views in"
A noble endeavor! I grew up in the LA area--and hated every minute of it. The whole thing is an aesthetic nightmare. I remember standing at the Getty Center one day, and looking out over the smog-ridden chaos, and wondering, "When, O Lord, shalt thou send the brimstone as thou didst Sodom?"
That being said, I've made my peace with that realm. Now that I don't live there I am able to visit family and such, accomplish what needs to be done, and return to my hut in the woods no worse for the wear. Some of my childhood friends, however, have never travelled beyond the Valley to this day.
More's the pity.There's a cool Warren Zevon song:
"They say this place is evil,
That ain't why I stay,
'Cause I found somethin'
And it sure ain't nothin'
And I found it in LA.""I'm afraid, however, contrary to the youthful epiphany of my early experiences with, let's say, opened doors, that we can't spike the drinking fountains!"
No, we cannot spike the drinking fountains. I've really moved beyond the whole preoccupation with substance use/abuse. As I ascend the rungs of "higher" education, I am taking a more mature approach to these things. I support individual liberty in the fullest, but I think that the best way to approach these things is by reopening clinical trials and letting the data speak for itself. The only thing I use with anything close to regularity is cannabis, and even that is decreasing exponentially.
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@David S said
"My girlfriend is working on an article right now about how street art is transforming neighborhoods in downtown LA from razor wire enclaves to open air walking pavilions, prompting store owners to remove the dark paint from their windows and let the sun and views in"
Very cool, and a good example. Small starts like that can blossom in surprising ways(in fact, small starts are really all we have right now--specially programmed chaos butterflies setting free storms. Ma'at is far off yet.). Cheers to local artists and your girlfriend, man
@David S said
"And given that the language of the sub-consciousness is of sensual images, the media of "art" is rife with possibilities, symbolic and heuristic, for transformation."
Oh yes. This is the thing. How subtly profound of a fact it is that there are symbols capable of evoking similar responses across varying nervous systems(a widely recognized fact too, taking into account how many people pursue things like dream dictionaries, though its use is less explored). A command over those symbols in the Law of love is true power; one can assess the psychological climate of our species, diagnose problems, and send out art teeming with the symbols necessary to bring those problems to conscious awareness in any who witness it, almost against their conscious wills being that the images/sounds go right to the unconscious mind and tweak the gears. I have seen many manifestations of this power in my mere two or so years that I've been at this stuff. I've turned many-a-Persephone into full-fledged psychopomps with this magick.
@David S said
" Also, the artistry of little things should be remembered, the ritualization of experience in the day-to-day, when instead of paintbrush or guitar, the personality serves as instrument. "[E]ver To me! To me!" "
Again, yes. A man after mine own heart. This is what it all comes down to, it is the quintessential realization of Art: that our egos are our finest medium for the expression of the Higher. If one is in a state of such fluidity that one can create and destroy their own ego at will, then one can make oneself a reflection of their environment, effectively bringing to light the undercurrent of influences and guiding the Briatic tide every second of every day. It was contemplating Atu XIV that gave me the keys to access this state of awareness and I have formed my whole system of magical interaction with Nuit around it.
So, cheers and cheers and cheers again. I haven't seen another who was present to that.
93's.
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@Mephis said
"No, we cannot spike the drinking fountains. I've really moved beyond the whole preoccupation with substance use/abuse. As I ascend the rungs of "higher" education, I am taking a more mature approach to these things. I support individual liberty in the fullest, but I think that the best way to approach these things is by reopening clinical trials and letting the data speak for itself. The only thing I use with anything close to regularity is cannabis, and even that is decreasing exponentially."
Indeed. I'm only 18 and I'm already slowing down. I still have a very loving relationship with Psylocybes and Amanitas, however. I don't use them regularly, but they'll never be a no-no to me. Same goes for Cannabis. LSD had its day, phenethylamines too, all beautiful sacraments that I recommend to everyone, but I learned what I was going to. The priests at Eleusis would only allow people to consume Kykeon(archaic LSD, essentially) once, and I see virtue in that. At the same time, no initiating officer will ever do as much for me in the pursuit of initiation as being alone with Mr. Mushroom in a semi-ritual context. I think that goes for everyone, as far as opening willing people up to living, breathing Thelema(no better way to meet Nuit than on a friendly dose of Penis Envy! No sir!). Even the old Hebraic priests recognized it.
@Mephis said
"A noble endeavor! I grew up in the LA area--and hated every minute of it. The whole thing is an aesthetic nightmare. I remember standing at the Getty Center one day, and looking out over the smog-ridden chaos, and wondering, "When, O Lord, shalt thou send the brimstone as thou didst Sodom?"
"Well, since we mentioned Tool... www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_oJALpv44
Forgive me, I had to. -
@kasper81 said
"if someone seeks an escape from reality then practicing magick is the last thing they would do because it would bring them to reality..."
That seems to me to be the BEST reason to recommend they practice it
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"I see Thelema (and Magick, by extension) as the antithesis to escapism. To me it's certainly been so."
@Jim Eshelman said
" kasper81 wrote:if someone seeks an escape from reality then practicing magick is the last thing they would do because it would bring them to reality...
That seems to me to be the BEST reason to recommend they practice it
"Agreed around. No way to un-see the Hawk-headed Lord.
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@Mephis said
"In what way can we positively manifest Thelemic ideals in society?"
Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?
@Mephis said
"How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?"
Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?
@Mephis said
"How can one work to bring others to the Light without conversion or coercion?"
Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?
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@Frater 639 said
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@Mephis said
"How can we work to promote the evolution of Thelema?"Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"
No, but it might benefit from better posture.
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Frater 639...
Always here to poke beautiful holes.@Frater 639 said
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Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm. Interesting experiment, perhaps... In my oh-pin-ion, an overzealous Christian can manifest them only in the sense that their madness highlights the applicability and virtue of its opposite in Thelema.
@Frater 639 said
"
Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides
@Frater 639 said
"Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?"
This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes
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@Diluvium said
"Frater 639... Always here to poke beautiful holes."
I LOVE TO POKE BEAUTIFUL HOLES. ESPECIALLY ONES WITH PERSONALITY.
@Diluvium said
"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm"
Yes. Of course it could. Saying anything else is in danger of one POV being superior?
@Diluvium said
"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides "
I think evolution takes care of itself regardless of hype.
@Diluvium said
"This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes "
Sometimes people mention Light but they usually mean their own version of it -- and then, they're quick to apply it to someone else.
@Jim Eshelman said
"No, but it might benefit from better posture."
Haha! "Better" could be a measurement of a biased perspective.
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@Frater 639 said
"
@Diluvium said
"Frater 639... Always here to poke beautiful holes."I LOVE TO POKE BEAUTIFUL HOLES. ESPECIALLY ONES WITH PERSONALITY.
@Diluvium said
"Do you really think the activities implied fall in line with the Law of love to begin with? Especially love under will? I wonder if anything under the banner of actualized True Will could even be carried out within that paradigm"
Yes. Of course it could. Saying anything else is in danger of one POV being superior?
@Diluvium said
"It could produce the illusion of a longer neck and accomplish its will besides "
I think evolution takes care of itself regardless of hype.
@Diluvium said
"This is the whopper. I think its a requirement, not a choice. Those without a semblance of the Light within them damage the world around them with their misguided actions. I am perfectly willing to "guide" them in order to prevent needless messes "
Sometimes people mention Light but they usually mean their own version of it -- and then, they're quick to apply it to someone else."
Okay, okay, you got me.
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@Frater 639 said
"Could an overzealous Christian manifest Thelemic ideals if she is following her True Will?"
If her name happened to be Emily Bertha Bishop.
"Would a giraffe grow a longer neck if it had a good PR campaign?"
No, but it might vote Republican.
"Are people personally responsible to bring themselves to the Light?"
Yes, but some have "eyes that are but little covered in dust."
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I bristle at the concept of proselytizing and "converting" people, just on general principles. That seems to be the ultimate interference with someone's will, Thelemite or not. And, we all know it: Thelema is not for everyone, and in fact, I don't believe it's for most people. Most people don't have the self-awareness and have no interest in nor capability of taking responsibility for oneself that Thelema requires. Christianity is so prevalent because it's so easy to "give it all to god," and "let jesus take the wheel," and BOOM! you're off the hook.
I certainly agree that we are examples in the way we live our lives and practice our belief, and if someone comes to any of us and asks what it is we "are," then by all means, share with them. They'll know soon enough if they are up for the challenge. Thelema to me is new each day - because I'm continuously growing, learning new things, new ways of looking at life and at myself. Life would not be worth it without these daily renewals. Some people crave stasis and want no new ideas to interfere with their insulated, closed world. Thelema breaks down all those doors and forces you to face yourself - personally, I think that is the number one fear that people have and most never do, all their lives.
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@Mephis said
"If her name happened to be Emily Bertha Bishop."
Or Violet Firth and Mother Theresa. Hopefully still household names after the last armchair Thelemite dies off...
@Mephis said
"No, but it might vote Republican."
Haha! Funny.
Giraffes don't vote! Only sheep.
You'd be surprised -- most of the Animal Kingdom still believe in the Manipulative Memes that stem from the Distraction Dichotomy.
@Mephis said
"Yes, but some have "eyes that are but little covered in dust." "
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
-- Jesus of Tiphareth
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@Frater 639 said
"Or Violet Firth and Mother Theresa. Hopefully still household names after the last armchair Thelemite dies off..."
Well, that's fine--I'm more of a barstool Thelemite anyways.
"You'd be surprised -- most of the Animal Kingdom still believe in the Manipulative Memes that stem from the Distraction Dichotomy.
"Which is why I remain a practicing carnivore.
""You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
-- Jesus of Tiphareth
"Plank=Luach=44
44 also gives us "to absorb/swallow up" and "garment/carpet," so, by reverse Aiq Bekar (applied to the M.A.L.A.R.K.Y. formula) I read this as a warning against carpet munching, nothing more.
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Regarding conversion the BOTL is very clear - "...argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" Reading this made me think of a scene in the move Malcom X where he was meeting with Elijah Muhammad. The mentor taught the student that people in general will take what is available to them. However, if they are given a choice then they'll choose what best fits them, what is most pure to them, what tastes better, etc. Possibly a key to this is making sure there is an avenue for this choice to be made if one is inclined to "spread the word" so to speak.
