Dhyana Troubles
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Thank you, everyone, for your responses and your fresh perspectives. This has been a major bother and a hindrance to any kind of serious progression for years now. It's fairly pathetic that I need reassurance, as a magician (especially one into Thelema) is expected to be bold and fearless. Crowley was on the money in regards to Doubt.
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@Caduceus said
"... It's fairly pathetic that I need reassurance, as a magician (especially one into Thelema) is expected to be bold and fearless. ..."
No it isn't. Bold & fearless has to be learned. And sometimes it seriously pays to be careful and take one step after the other - lest there be no further step after a misstep too far ...
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Follow Jim's advice. That's all I can say. Being grounded in Yoga is key to access the "Astral Plane". It takes time.
A good grounding in some sort of Qabalah is important too, simply from a "filing system" POV. It might prove difficult to distinguish anything without a firmly rooted symbology. Not to say someone couldn't do it successfully without a classification system, but what would be the point? For fun? Ok...that's cool too. To each their own.
The training system of the A.'.A.'. is the only one I'm familiar with when it comes to astral work -- I can say that once one starts to work with Liber O, after training with simple Asana and some ritual work for a few years, you should slip into it quite nicely. I'm sure your personal timeframe will differ slightly.
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@Frater 639 said
"A good grounding in some sort of Qabalah is important too, simply from a "filing system" POV. It might prove difficult to distinguish anything without a firmly rooted symbology. Not to say someone couldn't do it successfully without a classification system, but what would be the point? For fun? Ok...that's cool too. To each their own."
I thought to add that Qabalah, especially concerning the Tree of Life is of greater use than just a "filing system"
(I have noticed your use of quotations, perhaps what I am saying is the implication - if so, it was not clear to
me and possibly others)
It is a great asset in focusing ones travels, for it is easy to get lost meandering about the Astral
Even worse, get caught up in a million adventures, that while fun are only a distractionOf course, everyone should experience an Astral miss-adventure once if only to have a reference for when you have gone off track
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@Uni_Verse said
"I thought to add that Qabalah, especially concerning the Tree of Life is of greater use than just a "filing system"(I have noticed your use of quotations, perhaps what I am saying is the implication - if so, it was not clear tome and possibly others)"
Sure, I agree. Of course it is.
There is no argument that there are many aspects to Qabalah, which could be more accurately labeled "perception", from one POV. Is it not a tool for seeing the different aspects of the One Light?
It does mean "reception" after all...and when we receive, we categorize -- it is of no use until categorization, which is personal symbol integration. Would you agree?
Once experience is "filed" we can we use it along with projection of force knowingly. How do we speak without knowledge of the words? It is a language, just like music and politics. We still need knowledge of notes, rhythms, nouns, verbs, etc. to be able to communicate efficiently.
@Uni_Verse said
"It is a great asset in focusing ones travels, for it is easy to get lost meandering about the Astral"
I wouldn't know how to direct them otherwise. One could argue that points on this forum get lost there all the time.
@Pattana Gita said
"Freedom is: I reserve the right to change my mind at any time."
Haha! Yep! All necessary curves of the Cone.
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@Frater 639 said
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There is no argument that there are many aspects to Qabalah, which could be more accurately labeled "perception", from one POV. Is it not a tool for seeing the different aspects of the One Light? "Further, I think it also helps to see the way these various aspects interact with one another.
@Frater 639 said
"It does mean "reception" after all...and when we receive, we categorize -- it is of no use until categorization, which is personal symbol integration. Would you agree?"
I would agree that is the natural tendency.
Even more so to the importance and use of the personal symbol integration.
To the point where it is no longer required consciously.
That we may experience with out the need to categorize.
Transforming the mundane into something truly magical.@Frater 639 said
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Once experience is "filed" we can we use it along with projection of force knowingly. How do we speak without knowledge of the words? It is a language, just like music and politics. We still need knowledge of notes, rhythms, nouns, verbs, etc. to be able to communicate efficiently. "Efficiently, yes - effectively, not necessarily. [EDIT: The dash seems out of place, leaving it there]
I could walk up to you and tell you my hand hurts.
Shaking it around and letting out a howl will grab your attention
Just as one does not require any knowledge of musical theory to play a gripping piece.
They do, however, if they wish to replicate it with efficiency.@Frater 639 said
"I wouldn't know how to direct them otherwise. One could argue that points on this forum get lost there all the time.
"Better the chaos be here and not in my Work
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In reference to the orignal post, meditation does not, in fact, result in ego-loss. I spent my first few years of meditation attempting to kill the ego. Eventually I realized that meditation doesn't destroy the ego, but merely enhances it and brings it into harmony with the Macrocosm. So in reality, the idea is to take your imperfect, Microcosmic self, and bring it into Unity (Yoga) with the Macrocosm. So the lesser self/ego is perfected and brought into contact with the Higher. Your own personal attributes are what make you a star; to destroy these would be to destroy the perfection of you as a human being. When Unity is attained, your personal aspects are merely enhanced and perfected.
Such is how I understand it.
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@Simon Iff said
"Concerning your quote from Crowley, I am of the opinion that he is not talking about dhyana at all, but something it might escalate into. Under certain conditions. And he does not mean actual death such as in heart and brain stop work.
He is talking about kundalini -...."
Dhyana is Sanksrit for the Pali word jhana which has been variously translated but usually as "absorption" and according to most interpretaitons of the Buddha's teachings is a necessary (there's a school of thought called "dry vipassana"--as opposed to the "moistening" qualities of jhana--that sees it as unnecessary) part of the Noble Eightfold Path called Right Samadhi (concentration). Ch'an (a.k.a. Zen) is simply the Chinese derivation of the words dhyana and jhana. The passage in Kaczynski's Perdurabo that cite Crowley's description of his attainment of dhyana (while staying with Allan Bennett in Sri Lanka) is similar to Buddhist descriptions of jhana and not, as Simon Iff notes, kundalini.
Hope that clarifies things a little.
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@landis said
"... The passage in Kaczynski's Perdurabo that cite Crowley's description of his attainment of dhyana (while staying with Allan Bennett in Sri Lanka) is similar to Buddhist descriptions of jhana and not, as Simon Iff notes, kundalini.
Hope that clarifies things a little."
Not really, as the problem appears to be that some postings of a user (Patthana's perhaps?) have been deleted since I wrote my reply and even I do no longer understand some of the (including my own) references in this thread now.
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@Simon Iff said
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@landis said
"No biggie Simon Iff. Sometimes I hit. Sometimes I miss."No other way here. I read the thread up and down and became more and more confused until I understood that what I originally replied to was gone. And I wrote it ..."
Wait. Are you saying stuff gets deleted here without you knowing who did it or why?
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@landis said
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@Simon Iff said
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@landis said
"No biggie Simon Iff. Sometimes I hit. Sometimes I miss."No other way here. I read the thread up and down and became more and more confused until I understood that what I originally replied to was gone. And I wrote it ..."
Wait. Are you saying stuff gets deleted here without you knowing who did it or why?"
Some people prove to only have one intent, which is not positive, and it gets them deleted (not without warnings) and so goes also their content (if that is warranted).
[Edit] Also, some people ask to be deleted - like the existence of a pharaoh who may or may not have existed, or the nose on the Sphinx.
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@Simon Iff said
"Some people prove to only have one intent, which is not positive...."
I know exactly what you mean, and far as this forum goes I'll take your word for it (unless in the future evidence to the contrary presents itself to my senses). -
@Caduceus said
"Anyway, my predicament is that I would like to further my yoga practice, but the initial trauma of the experience has left me with a fear of the ego-death that accompanies that state. I have a fear of not returning to normal consciousness. I was wondering if anyone on the forum has dealt with this problem."
I can't speak to the "astral" side of things but I have some substantial experience with dhyana/jhana.
But first, could you clarify your understanding of "fear" (AC said "Fear is failure and the beginning on failure), "ego death," and "normal consciousness?"
Off the top of my head, you might focus on gaining competence with the calming aspects of anapanasati/Mindfulness of Breathing (just google it). Somewhere near the end of lecture seven in 8 Lectures on Yoga, AC postulates this (along with satipatthana) as a comparable alternative to the method(s) in Liber ABA (Book 4).