I'm going through the experience of the Abyss...
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But there's no need to wrangle and wrestle with it so (unless, of course, y'know, there's something in you that needs to wrangle and wrestle with it right now).
You just need to move past and find the new formula of connection, your own next step."
You are absolutely 100 % correct.
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@landis said
"You didn't answer my question about precision and specificity."Have I answered your questions now?"
For the most part."*Since that empathy of yours got me curious... Let me ask YOU a personal question: Can YOU make yourself:
**Vulnerable... **
Or are YOU running from yourself, having this control issue: "The need to focus on other people's problems" and "to take care of other people"?*"
Of course, but not globally. It is unwise to be vulnerable to everybody, especially people you just "met" online.
"
@landis said
"Why do you want to know if I'm on meds? I didn't ask you if you were. Are you a mind reader?"Were I a mind reader? I were right, weren't I? Because meds are a serious thing: They block emotions and shut down the hearts of men... I also felt it is hard to reach you... To touch your heart... And since you put yourself in a spot where you think you can diagnose and help another man... It becomes a trusty-issue... Therefor I ask this question: Are YOU on any medication?"
No (and if you're specifically referring to designer drugs--Prozac, Cymbalta, etc..., IMHO, no one should take them). Why do you ask?Unless you're a mind-reader or have some other relevant psychic "powers" you couldn't possibly know my emotions or thoughts.
It is hard for some to reach me, as wisdom dictates. I don't let just anybody "touch my heart."
I did not put myself in a spot to diagnose you--that's a result of you misunderstanding me. If you think I can't help you, that's fair enough. Maybe I can't. Time will tell.
When I said twice this is my opinion and not advice that was to be interpreted as, "I'm not trying to diagnose you." Legally, the only people qualified to diagnose you are psychiatrists (and maybe MDs). And if you mean by "diagnose" label you by the DSM, then I would never try to do that to anyone as I find the DSM a virtually useless tool.
Kindly,
~l -
W.W.A.S. (What Would Aleister Say...)
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@Shadow Self said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
"
I've read a lot of fantasy and science fiction, and I've often noticed the stories reflect a much higher level of initiation than the author actually has consciously. I've also found that I used to put certain people on a pedestal, that they can't possibly measure up to and then be disappointed when they don't live up to my fantasies, but not really, because now I am more aware of the phenomenon. Its really good I haven't been tempted to put anyone up on a pedestal since I stopped going to O.T.O meetings."
Shadow Self,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
I know what you mean... Actually the prophet was one of those authorities I had to let go of at one point in time... The "image" of him so to speak... and this hatred-image of Christianity that he created for me
... In my honest opinion, I think he went to far in his dismissal and hatred for this religion... I can today even appreciate the teachings of Christ."It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"
The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan... This little playful boy deep down inside of me... Who like to tease, play mind-games, giggle and smile...
And those very words wouldn't have been possible to utter... If I hadn't sacrificed my pedestal-worship of the prophet and other false "images" of people..."Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me."
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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""It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"
The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan..."
The point of Pan (The All) is that it's all "Universes". Ranting about "YOUR Universe" is a bit disturbing, to say the least.
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@Patrick Ossoski said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
""It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan..."
The point of Pan (The All) is that it's all "Universes". Ranting about "YOUR Universe" is a bit disturbing, to say the least."
That's because you failed to understand the universal Joke. You didn't see the playfulness behind me saying it... I wish someone understood!
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"W.W.A.S. (What Would Aleister Say...)"
Bugger off?
Quit sniveling and give me my crampon? -
"I read the link that you gave me for YOUR sake; the 10 cognitive distortions". I couldn't relate at all. Been there done that."
Cognitive distortions aren't something we conquer once and for all. They require the hard work and discipline of actively dsiputing them throughout our whole lives.
Myaybe you can better relate to Albert Ellis's take: 10 Irrational Beliefs Responsible For Most Human Unhappiness?
"
The page numbers are from his book, A Guide to Rational Living.-
The idea that you must have love or approval from all the significant people in your life (101).
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The idea that you absolutely must be thoroughly competent, adequate, and achieving; or the idea that you must be competent or talented in some important area (115).
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The idea that other people absolutely must not act obnoxiously and unfairly, and, that when they do, you should blame and damn them, and see them as bad, wicked, or rotten individuals (127).
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The idea that you have to see things as being awful, terrible, and catastrophic when you are seriously frustrated or treated unfairly (139).
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The idea that you must be miserable when you have pressures and difficult experiences; and that you have little ability to control, and cannot change, your disturbed feelings (155).
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The idea that if something is dangerous or fearsome, you must obsess about it and frantically try to escape from it (163).
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The idea that you can easily avoid facing many difficulties and self-responsibilities and still lead a highly fulfilling existence (177).
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The idea that your past remains all-important and because something once strongly influenced your life, it has to keep determining your feelings and behavior today (187).
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The idea that people and things absolutely must be better than they are and that it is awful and horrible if you cannot change life’s grim facts to suit you (197).
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The idea that you can achieve maximum happiness by inertia and inaction or by passively and uncommittedly enjoying yourself (207).
"
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@Patrick Ossoski said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
""It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan..."
The point of Pan (The All) is that it's all "Universes". Ranting about "YOUR Universe" is a bit disturbing, to say the least."
That's because you failed to understand the universal Joke. You didn't see the playfulness behind me saying it... I wish someone understood!"
Wait. I thought it was all about "ME, ME, ME"? -
Landis,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
@landis said
"
@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"*Since that empathy of yours got me curious... Let me ask YOU a personal question: Can YOU make yourself:**Vulnerable... **
Or are YOU running from yourself, having this control issue: "The need to focus on other people's problems" and "to take care of other people"?*"
Of course, but not globally. It is unwise to be vulnerable to everybody, especially people you just "met" online. "
Sounds like a sound attitude…
@landis said
"Unless you're a mind-reader or have some other relevant psychic "powers" you couldn't possibly know my emotions or thoughts. It is hard for some to reach me, as wisdom dictates. I don't let just anybody "touch my heart." "
It sounds like you have “self-respect”.
@landis said
"I did not put myself in a spot to diagnose you--that's a result of you misunderstanding me. If you don't think I can't help you, that's fair enough. Maybe I can't. Time will tell. "
But you did help me, perhaps not in the way you intended too, but you put your time and effort in there for me – proving yourself to be a “helpful” man. Also you have shown great patience with me even though I have been somewhat difficult with you – and you know I have!
Seeing this in YOU helped me…
@landis said
"When I said twice this is my opinion and not advice that was to be interpreted as, "I'm not trying to diagnose you." Legally, the only people qualified to diagnose you are psychiatrists (and maybe MDs). And if you mean by "diagnose" label you by the DSM, then I would never try to do that to anyone as I find the DSM a virtually useless tool. "
You are most kind and I know you wouldn't… I appreciate you taking the time trying to help me... I’m sorry for being so difficult…
@landis said
"Wait. I thought it was all about "ME, ME, ME"?"
But it is all about YOU!
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@landis said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"I read the link that you gave me for YOUR sake; the 10 cognitive distortions". I couldn't relate at all. Been there done that."Cognitive distortions aren't something we conquer once and for all. They require the hard work and discipline of actively dsiputing them throughout our whole lives.
Myaybe you can better relate to Albert Ellis's take: 10 Irrational Beliefs Responsible For Most Human Unhappiness?"
This is fun... I only read the first from "10 Irrational Beliefs Responsible For Most Human Unhappiness?"
I am going to give you the answer from 1-5 on each question and "1" being 100% false and "5" being 100% true. Okey, let's go. Let me read them now and get back to you.
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@landis said
"
@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"I read the link that you gave me for YOUR sake; the 10 cognitive distortions". I couldn't relate at all. Been there done that."Cognitive distortions aren't something we conquer once and for all. They require the hard work and discipline of actively dsiputing them throughout our whole lives.
Myaybe you can better relate to Albert Ellis's take: 10 Irrational Beliefs Responsible For Most Human Unhappiness?
The page numbers are from his book, A Guide to Rational Living.
"1. The idea that you must have love or approval from all the significant people in your life (101)."
1
"2. The idea that you absolutely must be thoroughly competent, adequate, and achieving; or the idea that you must be competent or talented in some important area (115)."
3
"3. The idea that other people absolutely must not act obnoxiously and unfairly, and, that when they do, you should blame and damn them, and see them as bad, wicked, or rotten individuals (127). "
2
"4. The idea that you have to see things as being awful, terrible, and catastrophic when you are seriously frustrated or treated unfairly (139)."
1
"5. The idea that you must be miserable when you have pressures and difficult experiences; and that you have little ability to control, and cannot change, your disturbed feelings (155)."
2
"6. The idea that if something is dangerous or fearsome, you must obsess about it and frantically try to escape from it (163)."
1
"7. The idea that you can easily avoid facing many difficulties and self-responsibilities and still lead a highly fulfilling existence (177)."
1
"8. The idea that your past remains all-important and because something once strongly influenced your life, it has to keep determining your feelings and behavior today (187). "
2
"9. The idea that people and things absolutely must be better than they are and that it is awful and horrible if you cannot change life’s grim facts to suit you (197). "
1
"10. The idea that you can achieve maximum happiness by inertia and inaction or by passively and uncommittedly enjoying yourself (207)."
"1
Now there are my honest answers… Doctor you got any comments upon this illness (?) of mine?
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Greetings The_Hawkheaded_child
You're welcome. I honestly have no hard feelings and I don't think I know better than you. I can be very difficult sometimes too.
I am TRYING to help you. Not as a professional but as person--as someone who also feels pain. I know it's a shot-in-the-dark kind of scenario, but I also know the information I'm sharing won't make it worse.
It is fun in a way. I like that you put it on a scale, too. I beleive your "scores" are honest and accurate.
I've struggled with all these at one time or another, especially 4-6 and 8, and like I said, it demands from me daily active disputation to make sure I don't descend in to abject irrationality. And sometimes, despite my best efforts, I have moments of total irrationality.
I hope you find what you're looking for.
Kindly,
landis -
@Jim Eshelman said
"But there's no need to wrangle and wrestle with it so (unless, of course, y'know, there's something in you that needs to wrangle and wrestle with it right now).
You just need to move past and find the new formula of connection, your own next step."
All,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
The new formula might be "gratitude" I am currently conunteracting and neutralizing every "shadow" with this humble feeling of gratitude! This mindset perhaps might be the only way out of this. It doesn't take away the pain in my chest, but it seem to make me able to handle, doubt, despair, sorrow - all those sucidal feelings that has been trying to pull me down for these 2,5 years.
It's like really cold weather; me greeting every shadow with gratitude , doesn't take away the cold, but it takes away "the edge" and the psyche downwardspiral down the abyss. It keeps my spirit up and it keeps me in control of my emotions. I will have to keep practising it for a much longer time before really knowing if I am on to something or not...
I don't know what will happen and how or if things will work out. If they do, I might report back in the future - since even though you perhaps think me depressed, mad or what ever you think of me; it could interest you if I made it out of the darkness or not...
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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That's very interesting; and gratitude is a feeling of the heart opening.
Peace unto you as well.
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Thank you
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All,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
I just want to share this experience…
Today while walking along the pathway, downtown, I were doing my prayers of gratitude and when “suddenly”… I felt that something wanted to enter my conscious mind; but I managed to finish one last: “I am so thankful” before – out of nowhere – leaped the name:
BABALON
It was my first “contact” with something real in two years! Nothing really moves me anymore, but I still experience chills over my body while thinking of this incident.
Now let me get back to being grateful
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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All,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Thank you very much for taking the time to deal with this problem of mine. Thanks for the critique, and your thoughts in general… You were all in your own way an important brick in me finding this new formula – and by god – finding the holy grail it self!
It now all seem to sort itself out. The prayer of gratitude; greeting every shadow; greeting every phenomena in general – letting go – has in this short time changed me radically.
I even have had two people, independent of each other, and spontaneously commenting upon mine mood; that I look much happier!!! I even caught myself once saying:
“Now the spring is here with hope and possibilities!”
That was the most odd thing to say for someone that has been battling suicidal feelings for 2,5 years. So the prayer of gratitude is working all right!
Now one can say that I have really started to “let go” and this isn’t always as easy as it sounds… I have noticed a lot of fear in the process of doing it… I have even noticed that I have actually been clinging to the darkness itself! The suicidal feelings were “an exit” so to say – if everything would have been to scary and difficult there was before an escape.
Now I don’t have this option anymore…
I understand, that greeting everything with invoking this feeling of gratitude, saying: “Thank you so much”. Helps me out of denial and the mistake of clinging to things I weren’t even aware of clinging to. True submissiveness to God can only be possible when accepting EVERY phenomena as it is, accepting everything that enter my conscious mind. Staying Grateful for everything, makes no room for denial and lies like: “but I am letting go” when I am really not “emotionally”… I weren’t… even if I said I was! I weren’t!
I now understand that I have been trying to make myself fast against the universe, refusing to wholeheartedly accept my destiny (whatever it might be.)… because of fear I have clung so long to this darkness – cursing it when I were in it; wishing it to be over – longing for it when it wasn’t present; wanting it back!
I were truly stuck down here… but now…
Invoking this “opposite” feeling (I wonder if this is what Crowley is referring to when he is talking about the "formula of contradiction"?), the feeling that everything has been given to you and that everything is exactly as it should be at this very moment – is insane (Imagine what it could do for poor people and people in general?). It is the destroyer of depression and it is the destroyer of everything else! I even try to share it with other people when I have the opportunity to do so...
A friend of mine is now using it too, and from using it just a little during two days he understood the true power of prayer!
Finally:
I here and solemnly swear to become gratitude!
I will give my thanksgivings to the Lord for everything that has been, everything that is and everything that is to come! I have been so disobedient, naughty, unthankful and I have a lot of making up to do…Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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Lots of emotionalism here?
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@Archaeus said
"Lots of emotionalism here?"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Yeah I know and eventually I will get a hold of myself. Let's remember that I am only at the beginning here of "letting go"... My magickal name has been Captator - which means one who "eagerly sizes". My emotional attachement to some phenomena is huge; it therefor will take a long long time before I'm done with stirring up feelings like this...
Your statement is therefor correct... and I am letting go of what you see too, when I have the strengh to do it that is (This "Captator-thing", is strong within me; this part that makes me wanna cry "hi" before making the jump over the river - one really shouldn't do that... I should learn to hold my horses so to speak... Perhaps now that you know that I am aware of being emotional, that you will start to understand me...
I am greeting these feelings with gratitude aswell, but at times they still overcome me so to say... To be frank: I am still very childish... and it's anoying, it really is... BUT! I will stay this way until I become something else... I can't force or rush myself out of anything... I can only stay present and do the work - slowly adjusting to whatever comes up without lust for any results... and perhaps I will gain some preachous patience along the way...
The road ahead of me, before "becoming" the road itself... will probably take a very long time to walk...
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace