ATTN; FEMALE THELEMITES, secondarily males
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Greetings:
Ladies, I have a question. In this world where in my opinion there most surely is a concerted effort to depower, squelch, minimise and render demeaned the Female of our species. How well do you feel Thelema, OTO A:.A:. as a culture and practice has Strengthened you, Empowered you, been workable and even handed with you ? Have you felt it is geared to keeping you equal to males? If you think it is ok, elivated you above your male peers,(and frankly as a "Female Adoree" that is quite ok in my world so don't be shy). If you feel as a female our american culture limits the role of women- do you feel the thelemic way has empowered you? Please I really want your opinion.
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Thelema is a wonderful system to empower women because in theory.......The people who are Thelemic support, nurture and encourage all regardless of sex.
It has noting to do with magick, or yoga, or hermetics, or the tree....or any human construct The tenants of Thelema are part of a larger Universal truth, an Ur pattern even.
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I find Thelema to be entirely self-empowering; that's why I'm committed to it. I find nothing in it that says you can only attain K&C if you are a man . . I don't find anything misogynistic about it. And I've given this some thought, after reading Brandy Williams' "The Woman Magician" in which she vilifies Crowley as a male chauvinist and is indignant that she, as a woman, is "relegated" to the priestess role in rituals. I personally think she carries feminism too far, and wonder why she still claims any connection to Thelema when apparently it insults her. I guess I'm looking past the rituals to the core of the Great Work, which is uniquely individual and that relies on YOU. I didn't find it very Thelemic to blame others (e.g. men) for her apparent inability to achieve what she thought she should be achieving in Thelema.
Just my opinion!!
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Thanks Ardeaa, I've never heard of that book but I just ordered it.
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@kasper81 said
"what about the gay men and the gay women?"
What about the trans-gendered and pansexual?
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Thanks for all these awesome words of counsel. I have a daughter, (actually 3) but who is particularly wrenched her way free of the slavegods and the man who was his prison warden over her. {I accept most of the responsibility for the event of her 'union' with this evil septic sludge of a being} but she is very stronly drawn to magical worlds and anything pagan and witchcraft. There are alot of Stars in the 'sky of the internet' all offering wonderful environments for the worlds which circle them. i do what I can to help her make some progress, but wonder if she can work to grow in her witchcraft as well as work and study in Thelema/A:.A:.. As it is I really want her under the protective guidence of a mentor.
She has been through 10 years of a very unique hell, and has 5 children who really batter her at times. She escaped as a plural wife in a mormon polygamist cult, she is so alone, and so distrustful but wants so badly to begin and build her spiritual life, I can't help but feel the Path to Ipsissmus would really do her well.
I can talk to her freely about it well enough, but as I am just begining- I wonder what better I can introduce her to to liven her spark.
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@Frater Dark Matter said
"Thanks for all these awesome words of counsel. I have a daughter, (actually 3) but who is particularly wrenched her way free of the slavegods and the man who was his prison warden over her. {I accept most of the responsibility for the event of her 'union' with this evil septic sludge of a being} but she is very stronly drawn to magical worlds and anything pagan and witchcraft. There are alot of Stars in the 'sky of the internet' all offering wonderful environments for the worlds which circle them. i do what I can to help her make some progress, but wonder if she can work to grow in her witchcraft as well as work and study in Thelema/A:.A:.. As it is I really want her under the protective guidence of a mentor.
She has been through 10 years of a very unique hell, and has 5 children who really batter her at times. She escaped as a plural wife in a mormon polygamist cult, she is so alone, and so distrustful but wants so badly to begin and build her spiritual life, I can't help but feel the Path to Ipsissmus would really do her well.
I can talk to her freely about it well enough, but as I am just begining- I wonder what better I can introduce her to to liven her spark.
LVX"Congratulations to your daughter for freeing herself from what sounds like a pretty nasty situation.
One thing I would suggest however is that you first and foremost let her find her own path. If she is drawn to Thelema of her own accord then all well and good, but putting it in front of her because You think it is best will only backfire in the end.Another thing is that I can't help but feel that you have the wrong end of the stick with your talk of the path to Ipsissimus. (Was it you that on another thread asked about a pendant for that grade?) Quite simply that path is a pretty tall Order for most people even at the beginning, and the grade of 10=1 is right at the end of the path. (One could say that it 'is' the path; but that's another discussion).
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Allow it to empower her, step by step...
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yeah, that was me in the Ipsissmus thread.
As for my daughter. I in no way and telling to enter the threlemic Path, just making sure she can see clearly the Banquet Table the Universe Presents. A:.A:. is just another food being offered, She (I think) is kinda being pulled this way and that, She really like theh Hecate realm, Wicca seems to be inundating alot- but she is not getting any one on one attention; I think an A:.A:. Path will give her the one on on, as well as help her to work whichever of the other paths she should choose. It likely will be along time until she can settle down into something, as a new single mother, with some "High Demand" special needs children, the most she can do is read abit, and hope. Ii am the last person she needs tugging her in any direction.
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@Frater Dark Matter said
"yeah, that was me in the Ipsissmus thread.
As for my daughter. I in no way and telling to enter the threlemic Path, just making sure she can see clearly the Banquet Table the Universe Presents. A:.A:. is just another food being offered, She (I think) is kinda being pulled this way and that, She really like theh Hecate realm, Wicca seems to be inundating alot- but she is not getting any one on one attention; I think an A:.A:. Path will give her the one on on, as well as help her to work whichever of the other paths she should choose. It likely will be along time until she can settle down into something, as a new single mother, with some "High Demand" special needs children, the most she can do is read abit, and hope. Ii am the last person she needs tugging her in any direction."
To be fair, A.'.A.'. is a pretty heavy undertaking although I agree that the one to one is definitely helpful. As far as I know the Wiccan movement doesn't have the organization in place to run that kind of thing although it would definitely be useful if there were. Knowing where to start is quite a task. I say she should just jump in and enjoy whatever catches her attention.
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@Frater Dark Matter said
"Thanks for all these awesome words of counsel. I have a daughter, (actually 3) but who is particularly wrenched her way free of the slavegods and the man who was his prison warden over her. {I accept most of the responsibility for the event of her 'union' with this evil septic sludge of a being} but she is very stronly drawn to magical worlds and anything pagan and witchcraft. There are alot of Stars in the 'sky of the internet' all offering wonderful environments for the worlds which circle them. i do what I can to help her make some progress, but wonder if she can work to grow in her witchcraft as well as work and study in Thelema/A:.A:.. As it is I really want her under the protective guidence of a mentor. She has been through 10 years of a very unique hell, and has 5 children who really batter her at times. She escaped as a plural wife in a mormon polygamist cult, she is so alone, and so distrustful but wants so badly to begin and build her spiritual life, I can't help but feel the Path to Ipsissmus would really do her well.
I can talk to her freely about it well enough, but as I am just begining- I wonder what better I can introduce her to to liven her spark.
LVX"I would like to throw some ideas out here.
You say you want your daughter under the protective guidance of a mentor, which is awesome, but I think you may really want your daughter to be fully actualized (aligned with true will) and capable of taking care of her own business.
Witchcraft and paganism can be wonderful tools for help g women overcome cultural and biological obstacles. Most women I know who got into witchcraft and paganism did so because they had a need to reclaim their feminine power, yet society has little to offer to many women. I honestly do believe that what could be called as the Goddess Spirituality Movement is a great place to start looking. In this movement a women, throughout the use of myth, song, dance, food, ritual and mundane life chores is able to heal herself in a way that not many other paths can.Now I say this as a person who is not GD, OTO, or AA. I can't speak on behalf of those systems ability to help a Woman get started on reclaiming her authentic self and helping be able to live a long happy successful life. Yet I know that many women seem to endure suffering for a long time, so long infect that when they are finally pushed to the breaking point and have to deal with their life honesty, They cannot be honest and open and trusting in the presence of men. It takes time, which is why I encourage women to read stories of mythology, poetry and literature of strong female archetypes, to view handicrafts and art work done by women.
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@Frater Dark Matter said
"Greetings:
Ladies, I have a question. In this world where in my opinion there most surely is a concerted effort to depower, squelch, minimise and render demeaned the Female of our species. How well do you feel Thelema, OTO A:.A:. as a culture and practice has Strengthened you, Empowered you, been workable and even handed with you ? Have you felt it is geared to keeping you equal to males? "
I was avoiding to answer to this question, wanting to think more about it before I do. The reason is: there was something upside-down in the question itself (that was my feeling, or first un-rational impression, upon reading your question, Frater Dark Matter). The simplest way to explain it that I can come up with now may be this: Liber L. did not empower me as a female, but as a human being. The fact that I'm a female human being is secondary to that - to my experience with the Book, and with Thelema in general. Those words in Liber L. essentially resonate with something in me that is beyond gender.
The question of being (in a healthy, balanced way) empowered is highly personal, I think, and although there may be some general points to considered (like those Jim mentioned for women - getting in touch with the female divine principle, through mythological and other stories & images), everyone follows his/her own unique Path in this respect. Because, to the question: what does it mean to be empowered? the best answer I can give is: it means to progressively become more and more consciousness of your own nature, to see and understand - and do/act in accordance with this understanding - the Truth of your own being.
Regarding religious paradigms, one may be incited to this - move towards achieving this (I'm saying it in continuous tense, because it's a process, not something that happens once, or at once for all times) by reading Bhagavad Gita, or Tao Te Ching, or any other Holy Book, with the sincere mystical approach.
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Thanks Excellant! For some reason I am very- 'insultingly opposed' to systems which make 'impressive Higher Way' claims, then after one travels down the path abit find some of the same old--boys on top girlswhere you belong on bottom, walk behind me understand you are not meant to be the top of the pyramid. I kinda have always has abit of discomfort with the "phallic Sun" thelema lamen, not to sure why other than somehow I became a female worshipper, and actually sex has never been at the top of the power pyramid (which I admit is more than likely some form of imbalance).
That you are strengthened and empowered as a Human Being- and you gender is not enforced upon you as some sort of predetermined pigeonholing by the system is really appreciated.
Alot of this may simply be my witnessing my mother being beaten to death by my stepdad and how at the time society- including my family and religion simply took it as a metter of course- thats is just how that family operates, marriage puts the female under the dominion of the male, so o well. Somehow during those years my "Holy Guardian Angel" which I called my "Spirit Guide" assisted me in "building a 'Temple in my Heart' and keeping some of the deatails to myself for the time being, within "The Holy of Holies" is a Lady Goddess upon the Alter I kneel to. This happened to me during my 9-10 years of age.
Thanks alot, sorry for the weird way I write or pose questions; just about ready to give up on being able to write in ways that are not annoying, offputting or incomprehensible. 93's