Laura Marx
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Welcome aboard from frosty Helsinki (well, it's actually sunny here right now, but gotta keep up the myths)! We don't have many Irish folk here (and less so in the government hah), but the ones we do, we like.
Interesting forum name there - what's the story?
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Welcome!
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LOL, yes! Everybody celebrates St. Patricks Day but us, I swear. It's really not a big deal over here. Maybe there's a bit of a thing in Dublin, but... But over there, they dye the rivers green and drink Guinness and sleep on great big shamrocks, or whatever. I always tell people 'shamrocks don't even grow in Ireland!' (which isn't true, of course). Anyway, that's great. What food was it, by the way? I wonder what the Italian impression of celtic food is. I'm picturing huge bowls of potatoes and nothing else.
Thankyou! LOL@sunny frosty Helsinki. And shucks! Yeah, having an Irish passport is always a great benefit while traveling, apparently. Oh, Laura Marx? She's one of Karl Marx daughters. Her full name is Jenny Laura Marx, but all of the Marx kids are called Jenny, after their mother - even their son! She was a socialist activist and we'd call her a 'feminist' nowdays, but I imagine she'd berate us and say that was so bourgeois. For usernames I usually use either something related to the Marx daughters, Mary Magdalene or Maud Gonne (Maud Gonne was great - Irish republican revolutionary and member of the Golden Dawn!)
EDIT: Thanks, Houngan!
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Cheers, Ms. Laura Magdalene Gonne. Or rather, sláinte mhaith!
Firstly, welcome welcome. Good place, good info, done good things for me and many others within our Current.
Secondly, this: irishorderofthelema.com
As far as I can tell, our Brothers and Sisters in Ireland are among our most passionate and firmly rooted. I've only met a few, but they shared a love of history that had me beaming. I'm in the States and many of my fellow youths here pay no mind to the past, and so engage life with no foundation. The above link could be a great resource for you, I'm thinking, if you weren't aware of that organization already.
A past-Master of one of my local Mason lodges got his Degrees from Irish Masons, something he came to be very thankful for. Apparently the vital, Alchemical core of Masonry is upheld more assiduously in Ireland, while in the States it becomes increasingly buried by paper-grades and clubishness. You're in an advantageous position as an Aspirant, even if it may not seem so.Thirdly, I'll share this with you, a relatively well-known story about Crowley, maybe you've heard of it: www.politics.ie/forum/history/13974-declaration-independence-irish-republic-crowley-1915-a.html
93's and best wishes.
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WOW. Thank you so much Melinydd! You have told me three things I had no idea about! I will address them in order;
First: Thank you very much! Yes, it's already worked wonders for me, moreso than I can really express.
Second: Wow! This is something that really surprised me. I really had no idea about any of this. They operate in Belfast, also, which is 15 minutes from where I live. Very exciting! The only Thelemic Order I was aware of operating in Ireland were the O.T.O.I., which my mentor was a, I believe, 6th Degree adept in, if that's the correct terminology (he only mentioned his grade once and refuses to speak of it by and large - modesty, maybe). He left after a while, finding it, well... I won't be libelous, but he cautioned me away from it regardless. This, though, this looks very exciting! So, I am very inspired by being told this, thank you.
And, absolutely, about history. History is one of my great passions, although admittedly my knowledge of Irish history isn't nearly as good as it ought to be. As for the Masons: well, I had no idea! I know that Northern Ireland is run by a kind of 'king pin' lodge called the Orange Lodge, which split away from regular Freemasonry a while ago and is now well buried in politics and, well, again, libel. Regardless; I don't believe I've ever passed a town or even a village without a big masonic lodge! One thing I've always really wanted to do is become a Mason too, and that's something I'd like to do, but I was under the impression Irish Lodges were Regular? As in, they do not admit women. Which puts me at something of a disadvantage, ahaha. I had intended to move to London for the irregular societies brought over by Annie Bessant (another socialist woman comes up in this conversation! I will be making a name for myself!), but if there are irregular lodges in Ireland that brings me joy.
And yes, ahaha, I've heard of the whole Masonry degenerating into a 'country club'. I had looked on a few Masons forums from the states and oh! It was enough to put me off!
Third: WOW. WOW! WOW! I'm honestly speechless about this. Honestly, I was beginning to lose a lot of respect for Crowley, after reading his "'Monsters', N-words and Jews" chapter from Magick Without tears (in which he didn't say N-words), which contained even anti-Irish slurs. Hearing this has deeply changed that image of Crowley. Ah, the man confuses me so, you know. He is so contradictory! A great dialectic of a man. And I think that's indeed what he advocated! Me and my mentor wrote a song called 'Dear Edward,' which goes 'You're an [x], you're an [x]' etc., listing two contradictory traits ('shewing two contrary states' as Blake would say, or 'fearful symmetry') of his per sentence.
Anyway, no - this is truly wonderful. I wonder if it could be adapted into a ritual that could be performed by myself or other Thelemic republicans - or if it has already been done so? Regardless - hearing that he was part of the revolution has lifted my spirits a great deal. Thankyou a lot for sharing that with me.
93, 93/93.
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@Laura Marx said
"WOW. Thank you so much Melinydd! You have told me three things I had no idea about! I will address them in order;
"I aspire to do nothing less than tell people things they have no idea about
I'll respond in order as well, as it only seems appropriate.@Laura Marx said
"...moreso than I can really express. "
Oh have I indeed waded those waters. I find that a majority of what is truly experienced when psychologically catalyzed by esoteric information remains outside the fringes of communicable language. Art perhaps is as close as we'll get, otherwise the Sign of Silence will suffice 
@Laura Marx said
"Second: Wow! This is something that really surprised me. I really had no idea about any of this. They operate in Belfast, also, which is 15 minutes from where I live. Very exciting! The only Thelemic Order I was aware of operating in Ireland were the O.T.O.I., which my mentor was a, I believe, 6th Degree adept in, if that's the correct terminology (he only mentioned his grade once and refuses to speak of it by and large - modesty, maybe). He left after a while, finding it, well... I won't be libelous, but he cautioned me away from it regardless. This, though, this looks very exciting! So, I am very inspired by being told this, thank you.
"At the very least, their website has considerably high production value
Looking closer, I really enjoy their embracing of the natural Paganism of the Isles within a Thelemic mindset. There's an organic strength to it, and again, I sense a firm foundation in history at play in their workings. Can't stress that importance enough!! Personally, though, I reserve judgement 'till seeing the eyes of their practitioners. Luckily for you they're right down the street. How exciting that must be 
I'll add that I think it's spectacular that you already have a level-headed mentor with experience in occult orders as a starting point in all this. Did I say luck? Do you even believe in that stuff?
@Laura Marx said
"...although admittedly my knowledge of Irish history isn't nearly as good as it ought to be."
On this bit: have you read the Táin Bó Cuailnge? Irish myth. If not, it's a great place to start. Heart then head
@Laura Marx said
"As for the Masons: well, I had no idea! I know that Northern Ireland is run by a kind of 'king pin' lodge called the Orange Lodge, which split away from regular Freemasonry a while ago and is now well buried in politics and, well, again, libel. Regardless; I don't believe I've ever passed a town or even a village without a big masonic lodge! One thing I've always really wanted to do is become a Mason too, and that's something I'd like to do, but I was under the impression Irish Lodges were Regular? As in, they do not admit women. Which puts me at something of a disadvantage, ahaha. I had intended to move to London for the irregular societies brought over by Annie Bessant (another socialist woman comes up in this conversation! I will be making a name for myself!), but if there are irregular lodges in Ireland that brings me joy."
Concerning Irregular lodges in Ireland, that I don't know. I've personally written off Masonry almost entirely at this point, least of all on account of the exclusion of women. I find it distastefully "Old-Aeon" as a whole, ritual themes and all. I'll still party with the guys, however
Still, if it is your Will to explore what Masonry has to offer than I wish you power to your work. I certainly wouldn't want to spend too much time in London. Big cities aren't my thing. The Masons you'll find out in the country will most likely be the most integral, methinks. So says the Welshman...@Laura Marx said
"
Third: WOW. WOW! WOW! I'm honestly speechless about this. Honestly, I was beginning to lose a lot of respect for Crowley, after reading his "'Monsters', N-words and Jews" chapter from Magick Without tears (in which he didn't say N-words), which contained even anti-Irish slurs. Hearing this has deeply changed that image of Crowley. Ah, the man confuses me so, you know. He is so contradictory! A great dialectic of a man. And I think that's indeed what he advocated! Me and my mentor wrote a song called 'Dear Edward,' which goes 'You're an [x], you're an [x]' etc., listing two contradictory traits ('shewing two contrary states' as Blake would say, or 'fearful symmetry') of his per sentence. "You know what it is about Crowley? A sense of humour
Though, when it mattered, he was there, lucid and intent.@Laura Marx said
"I wonder if it could be adapted into a ritual that could be performed by myself or other Thelemic republicans - or if it has already been done so? Regardless - hearing that he was part of the revolution has lifted my spirits a great deal. Thankyou a lot for sharing that with me. "
If anyone would know about that, it would be the guys at the Irish Order of Thelema. But yes, happy to shine another light on the man and thicken the plot a little bit. You're very welcome.
93, 93/93.
Regards,
Max -
"I aspire to do nothing less than tell people things they have no idea about
"Ha! My mentor tells me his object and purpose in life is to inspire the reaction, 'huuuh! I didn't know that.' It is certainly a noble ideal!
"At the very least, their website has considerably high production value
Looking closer, I really enjoy their embracing of the natural Paganism of the Isles within a Thelemic mindset. There's an organic strength to it, and again, I sense a firm foundation in history at play in their workings. Can't stress that importance enough!! Personally, though, I reserve judgement 'till seeing the eyes of their practitioners. Luckily for you they're right down the street. How exciting that must be "Hahaha yes absolutely. And yes yes, I really like their embracing of the Celtic past. There has been a good deal of movement in that direction lately, it will be an honour to be a part of it. And yes! Definately. They are grounded in everyone from Lugh to Connolly, it seems. And I will tell you all about it (or as much as I can not bound by secrecy or some other judge) in time! I'm particularly excited about their Republican leaning and their emphasis on social justice. This excites me a lot. I was looking to be involved in Republicanism/Activism and Magic and was horrified, finding them both to be wholly incompatible. I'm shocked to suddenly find their perfect synthesis. They even have an invocation of Lugh to aid them in the anti-Imperialist struggle, on the first page! Oh, wonder! Oh, joy!
"I'll add that I think it's spectacular that you already have a level-headed mentor with experience in occult orders as a starting point in all this. Did I say luck? Do you even believe in that stuff?
"Ah, yes, absolutely. I am eternally grateful to him. He emphasis on me the need for grounding and being sensible and remaining on earth and not up with the fairies. He's an important man in my life. He doesn't really teach me magic - he himself has given it up somewhat - but he teaches me everything necessary to deal with it. A level head, a questioning attitude, a sense of humour, and so on. Wonderful man. In fact, last week I asked him what element he thinks I correspond to, and he said 'I think you're a closeted earth,' ahaha. As for his experience with occult orders - on some research, the IOOT comes from the same body, roughly, as the order my mentor left and foibles over, but that order dissipated not long after he left, and another order was founded, and that too dissipated, due to their inherent contradictions perhaps, and the IOOT was formed only a few years ago, though by a great deal of extremely talented magicians, without any connection to the OTO. So, thumbs up!
"On this bit: have you read the Táin Bó Cuailnge? Irish myth. If not, it's a great place to start. Heart then head
"I really like this advice. I haven't read it, no. I'll look into it very soon!
"Concerning Irregular lodges in Ireland, that I don't know. I've personally written off Masonry almost entirely at this point, least of all on account of the exclusion of women. I find it distastefully "Old-Aeon" as a whole, ritual themes and all. I'll still party with the guys, however
Still, if it is your Will to explore what Masonry has to offer than I wish you power to your work. I certainly wouldn't want to spend too much time in London. Big cities aren't my thing. The Masons you'll find out in the country will most likely be the most integral, methinks. So says the Welshman..."Hahaha. Yeah, I don't quite know why it has a pull on me. Maybe their history, or efficiency. Maybe it's just the secrecy. If I find a good irregular lodge somewhere around here, someday, I'll probably petition at least, if I haven't changed my mind.
"If anyone would know about that, it would be the guys at the Irish Order of Thelema. But yes, happy to shine another light on the man and thicken the plot a little bit. You're very welcome."
Hahaha, just after saying that, you know, I found a ritual revolving the Irish Declaration of Independence, which they perform! Speaking of which, I have my first meeting with them next week
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@Laura Marx said
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Hahaha yes absolutely. And yes yes, I really like their embracing of the Celtic past. There has been a good deal of movement in that direction lately, it will be an honour to be a part of it. And yes! Definately. They are grounded in everyone from Lugh to Connolly, it seems. And I will tell you all about it (or as much as I can not bound by secrecy or some other judge) in time! I'm particularly excited about their Republican leaning and their emphasis on social justice. This excites me a lot. I was looking to be involved in Republicanism/Activism and Magic and was horrified, finding them both to be wholly incompatible. I'm shocked to suddenly find their perfect synthesis. They even have an invocation of Lugh to aid them in the anti-Imperialist struggle, on the first page! Oh, wonder! Oh, joy!
"All for Celtic revivalism, it's my hope to do much of the same for Welsh culture as per my own blood and heritage. Few here in the States are aware that the historical scaffolding of the first US constitutional idealism is essentially Welsh in intent and origin, a place to finally shake off the monarchy. All of the Celtic states have had their fair-share of pain due to imperialist powers; British history encases many shades of evil, from Rome to the Saxons to the French and Normans onto the 'proper' modern English, all placing a gangrene thumb on the native way of life. It's the same story with the Native Americans, eaten alive for the sake of business, the lowest of motivations worn as the highest of crowns. Celtic revivalism is a tributary of the greater revivalism of Wild Man and the Integral Life.
Magick was an essential part of these organic mindsets and I think it has a natural place in the resistance to powers of oppression, Peter J. Carroll and his "Knights of Chaos" project as an example(get and read The Apophenion and The Octavo by this man if you haven't, or perhaps ask your mentor about him--he used to be involved in various order under the banner of "Chaos Magick", though as of his second Saturn return he's achieved initiation in the Golden Dawn and began involving with the Druid circles around Brighton).
I saw the invocation you mentioned. Read the whole thing glowing
@Laura Marx said
"Ah, yes, absolutely. I am eternally grateful to him. He emphasis on me the need for grounding and being sensible and remaining on earth and not up with the fairies. He's an important man in my life. He doesn't really teach me magic - he himself has given it up somewhat - but he teaches me everything necessary to deal with it. A level head, a questioning attitude, a sense of humour, and so on. Wonderful man. In fact, last week I asked him what element he thinks I correspond to, and he said 'I think you're a closeted earth,' ahaha. As for his experience with occult orders - on some research, the IOOT comes from the same body, roughly, as the order my mentor left and foibles over, but that order dissipated not long after he left, and another order was founded, and that too dissipated, due to their inherent contradictions perhaps, and the IOOT was formed only a few years ago, though by a great deal of extremely talented magicians, without any connection to the OTO. So, thumbs up!"
Sounds like someone I could share easy hospitality with
Though, I want to say, reading the whole "closeted earth" thing made me think to suggest a meditation upon the Princess of Disks in the Thoth Tarot. Take that as you will 
I personally avoided OTO as well, choosing A.'.A.'. as my sole path. I attended a few Masses and general get-togethers at a local Oasis and came to feel that it had nothing to offer me in particular that A.'.A.'. didn't already cover for me. Some time was also spent within the Chaos/Maatian current, which still inspires me in some ways, but again, A.'.A.'. is the basin into which it all collects. The closest thing to IOOT over here, I think, is HOOR, which many members of my lineage are involved with. Perhaps I'll see about that later on.
But I digress!@Laura Marx said
"Hahaha, just after saying that, you know, I found a ritual revolving the Irish Declaration of Independence, which they perform! Speaking of which, I have my first meeting with them next week
"Well there we are
That progressed quickly!
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences, Ms. Mary Maude Marx -
It seems as if all my friends, of recent, have been talking to Irish ladies
So here I am talking to you!
Er.. somewhatHullo
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" Few here in the States are aware that the historical scaffolding of the first US constitutional idealism is essentially Welsh in intent and origin, a place to finally shake off the monarchy."
Wow! Really! I know the civil war was somewhat inspired by the Irish rebels. I didn't know about the Welsh current present. That's very very interesting. We shall be Celtic Revivalists in arms!
"All of the Celtic states have had their fair-share of pain due to imperialist powers; British history encases many shades of evil, from Rome to the Saxons to the French and Normans onto the 'proper' modern English, all placing a gangrene thumb on the native way of life. It's the same story with the Native Americans, eaten alive for the sake of business, the lowest of motivations worn as the highest of crowns. Celtic revivalism is a tributary of the greater revivalism of Wild Man and the Integral Life. "
Ah, you are singing my tune, dear Max
My heart vibrates with yours, you might say. And yes, absolutely, about the Native Americans. And a lot of other places too, I'd dare say - South Africa, Algiers, Aotearoa-New Zealand, Australia, so on... The old 'slave races' of so long ago. Yuck! But yes, I'm very excited for the revivalisms right now. I believe there is a First Nation American indigenous mystic revivalist of some kind on this forum? I have seen some posts in that current."Magick was an essential part of these organic mindsets and I think it has a natural place in the resistance to powers of oppression, Peter J. Carroll and his "Knights of Chaos" project as an example(get and read The Apophenion and The Octavo by this man if you haven't, or perhaps ask your mentor about him--he used to be involved in various order under the banner of "Chaos Magick", though as of his second Saturn return he's achieved initiation in the Golden Dawn and began involving with the Druid circles around Brighton)."
Yes, definitely. Wasn't J Carrol the one who wrote 'Liber Null & Psychonaut'? I haven't read anything of him yet. I'll have to have a look! I didn't know about his druid work. Also: my mentor led a few rituals around the Giants Ringnot too long ago, he's very into the celtic revival too.
"Sounds like someone I could share easy hospitality with
Though, I want to say, reading the whole "closeted earth" thing made me think to suggest a meditation upon the Princess of Disks in the Thoth Tarot. Take that as you will "Ooooh really? Wow, I'll have a look at that. I haven't started doing anything yet - like I said before, my plan is to begin Israel Regardie's One Year Manual, which is a nice slow intro into meditation and ritual. After that I had planned to do a few months of Tarot Meditation - maybe afterwards I could explore in depth the Princess of Disks? Also, you know - the first initiation into the elements in the IOOT is earth
"I personally avoided OTO as well, choosing A.'.A.'. as my sole path. I attended a few Masses and general get-togethers at a local Oasis and came to feel that it had nothing to offer me in particular that A.'.A.'. didn't already cover for me. Some time was also spent within the Chaos/Maatian current, which still inspires me in some ways, but again, A.'.A.'. is the basin into which it all collects. The closest thing to IOOT over here, I think, is HOOR, which many members of my lineage are involved with. Perhaps I'll see about that later on."
Mmm. Yeah, I had intended to just go through Freemasonry and then petition the A.'.A.'. but it all seems to be changing now. I really have no idea of where the path leads. But I hope to join the A.'.A.'. If I might ask, what grade are you? You can answer privately if you like. I wonder how you dealt with the Ordeal of the Siren, and I'd love to ask you about what level I need to be at before applying! (I want to take things very slowly though and go through a lot of therapy beforehand, and finish my hormone therapy course, because I suffer quite badly from mental illness - schizophrenia, anxiety, dysphoria and depression - and I know well the dangers of magic & madness, so maybe I would need to be much slower than you. Etc. But regardless!) Ah, interesting about the Chaos/Maat current. I played around with some Chaos Magic a few years ago, mostly cumming over sigils. Funny, actually - one of them just got realised a few days ago (from a few years ago!).
"Well there we are
That progressed quickly!"I found out today this is indeed the organisation my mentor was in, and he was very excited - very surprised! - and said I should have said to him, he'd have set me up. I told him it all happened so quickly! And it really did! Wow! I just emailed them asking them where they held their feasts and they gave me an invitation! Wow! Anyway, I was wrong about his reasons for leaving, before - it wasn't the OTO he left for those reasons, it was yet another organisation (he's been in a few!). He's on good terms with all of them. Actually, that website you said was so high-production - he's the one who made it!
"Looking forward to hearing about your experiences, Ms. Mary Maude Marx
"Don't worry! I'll be keeping a meticulous magical diary ;D
"It seems as if all my friends, of recent, have been talking to Irish ladies
So here I am talking to you!
Er.. somewhatHullo
"Ha! Wonderful! Hello!