Masonic oath and Thelema
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There is also maybe a problem with the definition of the grand architect of the universe. It is said it is Ain Soph. Whereas we have Nuit Hadit and Ra Hoor Khuit. Thus if we are to "choose" one God, as it can be implied when saying sucha formula as GAOTU, it should be Nuit, and thus Ain, not Ain Soph, as she is Continuous...?
I noticed there is this difference between different orders. Some "consider" Ain as "God", others Ain Soph. Even though its not a topic people work onto actively, and even though both recognize how the trinity works, the nuance could impact the eggregore of the group...?
But maybe it is not a problem at all as long as one is conscious of the nuance and practices to Nuit, as every part of her could be worshipped to her.What do you think?
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@Frater Horus said
"There is also maybe a problem with the definition of the grand architect of the universe. It is said it is Ain Soph. Whereas we have Nuit Hadit and Ra Hoor Khuit. Thus if we are to "choose" one God, as it can be implied when saying sucha formula as GAOTU, it should be Nuit, and thus Ain, not Ain Soph, as she is Continuous...? "
That's too narrow IMHO. It doesn't matter what you call a god. I find no conflict between G.A.O.T.U. and the Thelemic pantheon.
My understanding is that Masonry pointedly does not define the nature of God.
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@Frater Horus said
"It's the "belonging" part. I dont remember the exact words but there is a notion of "you belong to masonry", not to "great white brotherhood" but to "masonry". Or maybe i was paranoid when i read this and interpretated in a weird way.
"I'm not sure what you're talking about. There is no such element to any Masonic oath in any of the degrees I've taken (and I've taken quite a few).
The core of the degree oaths have to do with keeping secret the special parts of that degree; there are also obligations in some degrees to defend and assist your brothers in the order. There is nothing whatsoever in regular masonry that says you "belong" to the order. In fact, there is explicitly nothing in the oaths which are contrary to one's religious duties (assuming he already fits the religious conditions to be fit to be made a mason in the first place).
93!
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@Frater Horus said
"There is also maybe a problem with the definition of the grand architect of the universe. It is said it is Ain Soph. "
Where exactly is that said?! Because I can tell you that in the Chapter degree of the Holy Royal Arch the true name of the Grand Architect is revealed, and that ain't it.
93!
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@Swamiji said
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@Frater Horus said
"There is also maybe a problem with the definition of the grand architect of the universe. It is said it is Ain Soph. "Where exactly is that said?! Because I can tell you that in the Chapter degree of the Holy Royal Arch the true name of the Grand Architect is revealed, and that ain't it.
93!"
I read this in a masonic book. It was in an advanced degree, after 33°(memphis misraim system).
As far as i understand now there is no dogmatic conception of god in masonry.
And to be fair i like(among other things)the way they write the date, a direct wink to Nuit !
Actually it seems more thelemic to me than counting from 1904
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@Frater Horus said
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@Swamiji said
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@Frater Horus said
"There is also maybe a problem with the definition of the grand architect of the universe. It is said it is Ain Soph. "Where exactly is that said?! Because I can tell you that in the Chapter degree of the Holy Royal Arch the true name of the Grand Architect is revealed, and that ain't it.
93!"
I read this in a masonic book. It was in an advanced degree, after 33°(memphis misraim system).
As far as i understand now there is no dogmatic conception of god in masonry.
"There is no dogmatic conception of "god" in masonry; in fact the central teaching about "god" is about the transcendence of dogma in favor of universal deity.
As for the memphis-mizraim rite; they aren't considered regular rites. Very popular among the esoteric crowd but never recognized.
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93,
All oaths are statements of Will, not divisions of Will. Even their 'binding' nature is the same binding as an athlete 'binds' themselves to exercising and practicing a lot.
Masonry will neither insist you 'belong' to it/them nor will it really define 'God' for you as it is essentially based in tolerance and the understanding of many approaches to the same divinity. Your oaths will be primarily of the nature of (a) secrecy in regards to its signs of recognition and such (b) certain disciplines that are intended to make you a better person, i.e. change your 'rough' self into a 'polished' self.
93 93/93
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93
there is no conflict with Freemasonry and Thelema, in fact 15 years ago I was made an Entered Apprentice taking my Masonic oaths on Liber Al, the Holy Bible was also there (which was not in conflict with my beliefs at all, Do what thou wilt) as this is part of the Masonic Temple or Lodge (which ever you prefer), but I chose my Holy book to take my oaths which is totally acceptable. Only requirement into freemasonry is that one believes in a supreme being for all the Blue Lodge degrees.
If you wish later to go into higher degrees like the Rose Croix of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite then a requirement is you are christian, same as the Knights Templar and Knights of Malta degrees of the Yorke Rite, one must swear belief in the christian Trinity. Again, interpret as you will but there is no conflict with Thelema and Freemasonry including the "upper degrees", the only thing I could see being an issue is crowleys reputation, but even then most people have not even heard of him so its not an issue really and ou dont even need to mention his name at all anyway. Your personal religious beliefs should not be an issue within any Blue Lodge at all as religion and politics should not be discussed in the Lodge.
Go for it if its what you want, I have enjoyed it and met many interesting people whom I have learnt much from.
Like anything though, you will only get from Masonry what you put into it but that also goes with anything and everything in life you do.
Agape
