Initiation v. Religion
-
Salvete,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
What is the difference between an Initiation system and a Religion?
Love is the law, love under will.
Frater D.A. -
@DeoAdjuvante said
"What is the difference between an Initiation system and a Religion?"
That differs with the person defining it, of course. For example, a Fundamentalist Protestant Christian would say that the religion is the path of God's truth, and an initiation system is a godless work of the devil leading God's children astray.
I tend to use the terms, most of the time, as nested layers. Generally I use "religion" to mean an outer, meant-for-the-masses means of worship which integrates strongly with local community and has a strong hand in providing codes of morality that are consistent with its particular beliefs and community or cultural ideals. That's a big piece of religion: Providing the mandatory code by which people are expected to live.
Initiation systems (as distinguished from "the process of initiation" - different topic and just avoiding semantical hysteria here) - tend to have the goal of leading people inward to their own direct relationship of divinity. They may begin with codes of conduct, though their goal is to bring people to where they are self-governing. Where religion is for the masses, initiation is for the relatively few. Systems of initiation are likely to understand how many divergent religions are common "outer courts" to their more universal patterns of understanding - Religions are more likely to affirm that they are "the one and only path."
-
@DeoAdjuvante said
"What is the difference between an Initiation system and a Religion?
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
here is one big specific difference that comes to mind:
An Initiation system requires, or at least encourages, the mystical experience of the individual "follower".
A Religion does not suggest a mystical experience for the "follower" since that would undermine and endanger its' main agenda of mass manipulation / control. ( The Gnostics are a good example where mystic practicioners were first exluded from the umbrella-religion of Christianity and eventually even persecuted) To my knowledge no large religious movements support mystic endeavors of its members; smaller movements that do, I would categorize as sects, cults, etc.
But as Jim says, for the most part its all a matter of definition...
Love is the law, love under will.
-h
-
@Marc Free said
"
@DeoAdjuvante said
"What is the difference between an Initiation system and a Religion?"etymology: Re + ligare (to bind, tie cf.ligament)
IMHO the purpose of Religion as indicated by this definition is to teach us the mysteries of Nature towards the end of destroying the delusion of separation through mindful and faithful practice of acts of devotion and ethical behavior. Religion assists us to re-attach ourselves to the grand unity of eternal beingness as individuated aspects of the totality. The end result being the ability of the aspirant to radiate fulfillment and dwell in conscious and creative harmony with the omnipresent illusion of duality in the manifested world.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe is the true goal of any valid initiation system."
Indeed. It's worth noting that the Hierophant/Pope is attributed to VAV, which also means "to bind"; and this is, of course, also the definition of the word YOGA, "to yoke". This Atu is also deeply tied into the system of Initiation, given that its number is 5 and its letter is 6.
"I am The Empress & the Hierophant. Thus eleven, as my bride is eleven."
I have no idea what that means, but it's probably relevant.
-
No doubt about the etymology - and that's why I often use the word "religion" in places that startles some people.
So anther layer of this discussion is, "What do these words mean in normal usage that people will understand" vs. "What would we like these words to mean in an ideal world of linguistic purity."
-
@Jim Eshelman said
" "What do these words mean in normal usage that people will understand" ""
yeah ...um...well... i just dont buy the websters definition...or lets say I disagree with it
stay away from mainstream media...and mainstream dictionariesIMHO there are far more aspects that make a religion a religion besides what Websters lists.....specifically ( I have already posted this somewhere else, i am a repetitive sort of person) the control /cultural organization elements comes to mind
and once again, what "religion" really means is ultimately depending on how we as individuals choose to use the term. by using it in conversation/literature/message boards etc according to our subjective understanding of the word, we are shaping its definition/meaning...and who knows then they might even update the dictionaries accordingly...
btw, welcome marc!
is the board now open to the public or are u a guinea pig to test the waters in here? ;D -
@anima solis said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
" "What do these words mean in normal usage that people will understand" ""yeah ...um...well... i just dont buy the websters definition...or lets say I disagree with it
stay away from mainstream media...and mainstream dictionariesIMHO there are far more aspects that make a religion a religion besides what Websters lists.....specifically ( I have already posted this somewhere else, i am a repetitive sort of person) the control /cultural organization elements comes to mind
and once again, what "religion" really means is ultimately depending on how we as individuals choose to use the term. by using it in conversation/literature/message boards etc according to our subjective understanding of the word, we are shaping its definition/meaning...and who knows then they might even update the dictionaries accordingly..."
They probably will update the dictionary accordingly. What isn't going to change, however, is that the root of the word -- religare or somesuch -- means "to bind". At root, this is all the word means. Any other defining we do to it merely dresses it with our own projections. Therefore the literal translation of the word can only mean something to the effect of "that which binds a person more tightly to the Universe" -- substitute God, The Great One, Big Daddy, the Chief, or whatever else you want to call It. Religion is Yoga.
I have found over the years that studying a word's etymology in order to get at what it actually means has some of the same effect of working with gematria -- that is, it is a seed of meditation that creates pathways to related ideas, leading to a greater understanding of the interrelationship of things.
All of which is not to discount whatever the profane might mean when they are referring to religion -- and it is useful and important to know that, in certain (perhaps most) settings; but note that your definition merely puts forth your own anti-establishment bias. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but religion does not translate to "a system of control of the masses".
-
We might as well suck on both teats...
Main Entry: ini·ti·a·tion
Pronunciation: i-"ni-shE-'A-sh&n
Function: noun
1 a : the act or an instance of initiating b : the process of being initiated c : the rites, ceremonies, ordeals, or instructions with which one is made a member of a sect or society or is invested with a particular function or status
2 : the condition of being initiated into some experience or sphere of activity : KNOWLEDGEABLENESS -
Religion, by definition is re-connecting with the divine. Initiation is living or directly experiencing this reconnection. This requires a dramatic transformation of consciousness. Most of the time, religion doesn't necessarily imply or provide the mystical experience or the divine experience. It just shows the potential. Initiation puts you in direct contact with the powers of the divine, that is, the divine within you.
A lot of people are not ready to process this experience, because they sense that something HAS to die.
As I understand this, death is the only thing that stands between you and life, and to conquer death you only have to die.
Now this is the death of the ego, and to be reborn you have to shed the old you... the real process of initiation. -
What is more, Religion is often the exoteric degenerated residue of an original pristine esoteric initiatory tradition. Christianity itself offers an oustanding case in point. It is not for nothing Baptism is called "The Rite of Christian Initiation" in the Roman Catholic Church.
-
@zeph said
"Therefore the literal translation of the word can only mean something to the effect of "that which binds a person more tightly to the Universe"
...
it is a seed of meditation that creates pathways to related ideas, leading to a greater understanding of the interrelationship of things."Rather like the rope binds the foot of the Hanged Man to the framework of the Universe, so that His meditation will lead to greater understanding of the relationship between personal and Universal.
~*~
-
This thread has brought to light a recent issue I have been struggling with. Although I know the answer and meaning will be clear for me as I work through the argument, it still seems it would be good to discuss this here.
Abraham was reticent about making clear to Lamech (as book One of the sacred Magic of Abramelin records) that one should not renounce the Religion one is born with. As Mathers stated, many Occultists would have some disagreement with this, and until the meaning is clear to me, it is troublesome.
Can anyone shed a little light on this?
-
@Nudor said
"This thread has brought to light a recent issue I have been struggling with. Although I know the answer and meaning will be clear for me as I work through the argument, it still seems it would be good to discuss this here.
Abraham was reticent about making clear to Lamech (as book One of the sacred Magic of Abramelin records) that one should not renounce the Religion one is born with. As Mathers stated, many Occultists would have some disagreement with this, and until the meaning is clear to me, it is troublesome.
Can anyone shed a little light on this?"
The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage is a helpful instruction and pathworking for one who desires his Holy Guardian Angel to be Satan.
And I will say nothing at this time concerning a few other divers and sundry minutia in that book, but I have heard of old that the sages give utterance that Satan has been known to deceive.
-
At what time do you think you will speak about those "other divers and sundry minutia in that book?" I'd like to read what you have to write about them.
Also, how did you come to the conclusion that the method of attaining the conversation with the HGA in that book brings you to Satan? It would be interesting as I don't know anyone personally who has used the Abramelin working.