Liber Arcanorum and the Tunnels of Set
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
@Jim Eshelman said
"You asked for opinion - opinion is what you will get."
Thank you!
@Jim Eshelman said
"I have a copy of the book annotated as I read it. I keep it around just so that if someone shows up asking for my views, I can hand them the book and let them thumb through page-by-page comments. When you're in L.A. again, let me know in advance and I can dig it out and show it to you."
I'll try to remember that; I'd love to read it.
@Jim Eshelman said
"...the information is dangerous because he gives just enough to let a bright beginner...stir up something toxic and hurtful."
I've read (online) glowing, almost fawning, reviews of Grant's work from people who claim to have visited these regions. Their descriptions of the methods they used impressed me as being dangerous, in and of themselves. Now, I shudder to think of what they must have done to themselves.
@Jim Eshelman said
"...I believe he really is a Black Brother (or one in the making) if this is his real vision of things. I also note that nowhere in all of this is there a discussion of the Holy Guardian Angel.""
Do you mean one who has actually been lost in the Abyss? Could Grant ever have claimed 7=4?
@Jim Eshelman said
"On p. 203 I opined: "Most of this book would be pure crap, not worth a bother, if some of the most dangerous information were not correct This goes beyond the ordeals of discrimination that are planted for the unwary.""
This brings me back to one of the other points in my last entry. Is there any reliable information available on the nature of the beings named in Liber 231?
Love is the law, love under will.
Dan
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@ar said
"This brings me back to one of the other points in my last entry. Is there any reliable information available on the nature of the beings named in Liber 231?"
I know of nothing in print, other than what is in 231 itself. The book is part of the curriculum of the 3=8 (Practicus) Grade of A.'.A.'. and at least the textual portion is "true up to 7=4" -- though there is no exam in it, I have always considered its exploration part of the work of the Practicus.
I listed these spirits in 776 1/2 simply as another set of spirits - the same variety of being as, say, the Olympic Planetary Sprits or the various intelligences of the zodical signs. The Genii of Liber Arcanorum are listed in Col. 38 in the primary Yetziratic Hierarchy. The Qlippothic spirits of Liber Carcerorum are in Col. 73 in the normal Qlippothic hierachical positions. In general, the Practicus (or, for that matter, a solidly established Neophyte) would have no more difficulty making contact than they would have in making instant oatmeal - having the name, the sigil, and the Qabalistic attribution, knowing the color scales, and having the exact hierarchical "tree," they may be summoned as any other spirits of like kind.
In fact, I'm going to move this thread from the Qabalah forum to the Magick forum since the line of questioning has actually been of a more practical nature.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Rereading the above, I'm moved to add that the bigest problem with Grant's theory is a total lack of scale. The idea that one has to be able to attain to Da'ath before confronting the Qlippoth is ridiculous.
There is so much gross misunderstanding in magical circles of contemporary subjects such as The Abyss that one hardly knows to begin in commenting on it. There actually is an occasional rare gem of value in the various things written, but these are so rare that one is much closer to the truth to toss the whole batch of it out the window at once with an indignant flatulence and be done with it!
It's madness! But then (one might rightly respond), in The Abyss is madness. And Da'ath itself, being (in its outer aspect) intellect to the infinite degree, is most definitely madness!! But at least in The Abyss it is a sublime madness, whereas nearly everything one finds scattered on the subject around the Internet is marked, at best, by a petty, shallow, and even sallow madness. One has to be suspicious of too much self-importance on the subject of egolessness.
The Abyss is a subject dear to many contemporary writers trying to push their limits and get out of their own box, and all of this is admirable. But we live in nested boxes. There is always a wall just outside our present limits To call it "crossing The Abyss" everytime somebody breaks through one of these walls is to toss away a term that has a very specific meaning, and to coopt it for a different purpose.
I used to say, when I was Master of Baphomet Lodge and questions about crossing the abyss, sex magick, and Enochian would come up (usually together), that one usually has to "cross the abyss" many times before one makes one way up to beginner.
We have no difficulty making contact with Qlippoth. We all carry shells both of our personal psyches and lives, and of the collective life, and respond to them constantly. Confronting these often takes a bit more work and readiness, but every Neophyte 1=10 does a certain amount of this as part of a standard examination before moving to Zelator 2=9. It doesn't take a 7=4 to do it! It doesn't even take a 5=6 to do it. A Neophyte can do it and does do it, usually using fairly ordinary magical methodology and hopefully using standard magical precautions.
But to suggest this to people without those precautions is criminal. And to make the recommendation of exploring the Qlippoth to even very informed people while correlating it to The Abyss either (a) destroys all meaning of the terms or (b) presuming, as I think is usually the case, that the majority take this statement seriously, it can fry a brain. (Commercial: "One more time: This is your mind. This is your mind on Grant.") Badly cut hallucinogens in a war zone are probably safer!
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The book is part of the curriculum of the 3=8 (Practicus) Grade of A.'.A.'. and at least the textual portion is "true up to 7=4" -- though there is no exam in it, I have always considered its exploration part of the work of the Practicus.
I listed these spirits in 776 1/2 simply as another set of spirits - the same variety of being as, say, the Olympic Planetary Sprits or the various intelligences of the zodical signs. The Genii of Liber Arcanorum are listed in Col. 38 in the primary Yetziratic Hierarchy. The Qlippothic spirits of Liber Carcerorum are in Col. 73 in the normal Qlippothic hierachical positions. In general, the Practicus (or, for that matter, a solidly established Neophyte) would have no more difficulty making contact than they would have in making instant oatmeal - having the name, the sigil, and the Qabalistic attribution, knowing the color scales, and having the exact hierarchical "tree," they may be summoned as any other spirits of like kind."
Fair enough. When I get to Neophyte, I'll give it a go. Thanks for your input, Jim
93s
Dan -
My only encounter with Grant was reading "Outside The Circles of Time", which, in fact, I never finished reading because it's---well---unreadable.
I am thinking of endowing the "Grant Prize" for "most relentless and pointlessly obscure use of the word 'reify' in English."
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How and when should one go about learning about and dealing with the Klipphoth? Is there any connection between Da'ath and the Klipphoth?
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@Frater56 said
"How and when should one go about learning about and dealing with the Klipphoth? Is there any connection between Da'ath and the Klipphoth?"
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
There is no more connection between the Q'lippoth and Da'ath than between them and any other part of the Tree. The Q'lippoth are sometimes diagrammed as a "5th Tree" extending downward from Malkuth, as if it were the sub-basement of the Four Worlds. Alternately, when the Q'lippothic Tree is identical with the Tree we already know, but (again) simply a lower vibratory rate (below Assiah). Thirdly, it is sometimes expressed as at the same level as our current experience of the Tree but in a way that emphasizes duality by being the pathologized counterpoint to whatever else we are encountering.
How to go about learning about them? Well, intellectually there are some quite fine books such as Gray's Tree of Evil (going from memory on the title). Their essential natures, also, are related to the 'vices' and similar attributes of the Sephiroth as in 777.
I emphatically discourage anyone from getting into much experiential exploration of them until they have some real initiation and some substantial skill under their belts. (Of course, everyone is entitled to ignore my emphatic discouragement.) In the A.'.A.'., examination in this is usually the last examination before the Neophyte 1=10 is advanced to Zelator 2=9. This is a very appropriate level for that. Then, deeper instruction is given in the 3=8 grade of Practicus - a level roughly equal to the 6=5 in the old G.D.
In any case, the student at the beginning should be focussed one-pointedly on the Light, not the shadow aspect. The shadow needs to be acknowledged and admitted, etc., but the focus needs to be on the Light. This is one of the main reasons that Liber LXV is given to the Probationer, who must memorize at least one chapter of it. In time, when one is stronger and one's link to the H.G.A. is strengthening, there will be plenty of time to get oneself dropped down a well on a thin rope.
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Thanks! I have one more question that (in my mind) relates to this... During one of the initiations (5*=6*?) you are raised as Osiris Risen... But what if you change this and use Set Triumphant instead?
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@Frater56 said
"Thanks! I have one more question that (in my mind) relates to this... During one of the initiations (5*=6*?) you are raised as Osiris Risen... But what if you change this and use Set Triumphant instead?"
I can't think of any of the traditional rituals where one is raised in the Sign of Osiris Risen.
It's hard to give a generaliszed answer, therefore - out of context - as to what the difference would be substituting the Sign of Apophis (which is what the Sign of Set Triumphant is) for the Sign of Osiris Risen. Both are partial expressions of the multi-part 5=6 sign.
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This was supposedly done by an independant adept... They had undergone the origional ritual within the framework of the OTO, and later wanted to be free from the solar/phallic influence of the OTO, and as a result re-did the initiation to keep Osiris Slain.