class A words

zeph

"i am not understanding exactly what you are saying zeph??? where did i read what??? sorry i am not following you??"

You said you had read somewhere what I had written above about Coph Nia -- I was curious to know where you read it.

bethata418

sorry zeph, i was confused, lol, i read this in the liber AL commentaries by uncle AC.

zeph

Sort of. His Old Comment reads:

"Coph Nia. I cannot trace this anywhere; but KOPhNIA adds to 231. Nia is Ain backwards; Coph suggests Quoth. All very unsatisfactory."

I don't know what the heck "Quoth" means, unless he means Qoph; but like me he sees Coph as Kaph, else he wouldn't enumerate the phrase to 231. He doesn't appear to see it as being a representation of an empty hand.

There is some Latin gematria for 231:

aurora philosophorum
aurum philosophorum
spiritus corporalis

There are also 231 gates of Binah, if memory serves -- every possible combination of two Hebrew letters. (Hey, like I said, if memory serves.)

In another note, as long as I'm in the Commentary, it's clear how very hard Crowley tried to tie verses of the Book to contemporary events -- first he attributes v. 71 to WWI, then to a potential war beginning at the Straits of Gibralter, and then to a Spanish Civil War circa 1937. CLEARLY the twin warriors are a reference to the Red State vs. Blue State USA circa 2000-2008! Lol...

Mind you, Jim's notes on AIN SOPh and 831 are compelling.

bethata418

what about meanings of these words:

1.ammon-ra

2.thebai

AGAPE

fr.418

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"ammon-ra"

An Egyptian god - look him up in standard books on Egyptian Mythology.

"thebai"

Curious where you came across this. In any case, it's the Greek, or Graeco-Coptic, spelling of "Thebes."

bethata418

cool thanks

thebai i found in liber 7 chapter 3.

AGAPE

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"thebai i found in liber 7 chapter 3."

Notice that if you enumerate it as if Hebrew:

Th = 400
H  =   5
B  =   2
A  =   1
I  =  10
-----------
     418```

Hence, "I am the Lord of Thebes..." &amp;c.

bethata418

AHHH!! very very cool, and thebes is basically therion?

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"AHHH!! very very cool, and thebes is basically therion?"

No, no, no, not at all.

Thebes is the name of a city. There is one by that name in Egypt, another in Greece. Presumably, the Liber Legis references are to the one in Egypt, since that's the literal reference of the hieroglyphs on the Stele; but (more often than not) I seriously wonder if the real Thelemic mythic relationship is to the Thebes in Greece. (In Crowley's highly Oedipal psyche, I'm pretty sure that was the case! )

bethata418

LOL very funny.

so what is so important with thebes???

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"so what is so important with thebes???"

Which one?

Presuming you mean the one in Egypt: It was the center from which the Stele of Revealing and its regional theology originate. Thebes is specifically named on the face of the Stele - "Lord of Thebes" is named on it, a title reserved to Mentu or Horus. Ankh-af-na-Khonsu's father was in the priesthood of one of the primary ruling deities of Thebes. Etc.

Read about the chief gods of Thebes in Budge, for example. (You have Gods of the Egyptians on your shelves, yes?)

zeph

@Marc Free said

"but then again as they say "There's no honor amongst Thebes!""

Constable apprehending a Thebe:
http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/2664/marketpolice1ad.gif

zeph

Ptah?

bethata418

other words i was wondering about are:

FINIS
2.KHEM
3AMENNTI
4.KITHARION (OTHER THAN A MOUNTIAN)
5.FALUTLI
6.OAI (DIFFERENT THAN IAO??)
7.FIAT (26& LATIN 4 ELEMENTS)

thanks for all the help

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"FINIS"

Latin: End.

"KHEM"

Egypt. Also, during Crowley's primary learning period, Egyptologists thought Khem was the name of a god now known to be Min, so he often refers to "the god Khem."

"AMENNTI"

Egyptian underworld.

"KITHARION (OTHER THAN A MOUNTIAN)"

What context?

"FALUTLI"

You'll only find this a couple of places. No literal translation given, except in context in Vision & the Voice and Liber VII (IIRC). By at least one manner of counting, it enumerates to 156.

"OAI (DIFFERENT THAN IAO??)"

Sure, it's IAO backwards

"FIAT (26& LATIN 4 ELEMENTS)"

Latin for "Let there be." For example, Fiat Lux = "Let there be light."

bethata418

KITHARION i found it in the vision and the voice aethry 12:

And this is the comedy of Pan, that is played at night in the thick forest. And this is the mystery of Dionysus Zagreus, that is celebrated upon the holy mountain of Kithairon. And this is the secret of the brothers of the Rosy Cross; and this is the heart of the ritual that is accomplished in the Vault of the Adepts that is hidden in the Mountain of the Caverns, even the Holy Mountain Abiegnus

Jim Eshelman

I was confused that you said other than the reference to the mountain by that name.

Perhaps you were, instead, asking for information about that particular mountain. It's one of the most common locations for events in Greek myths, second only to Olympus. From a Google search, here are some links:

Wikipedia entry (in German - no entry exists in the English Wikipedia - but you can translate that easily enough with your browser): de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kithairon

Discussion of moutain as being, itself, a god (mountain spirit &c.) - various myths relating to Zeus and the mountain.
www.theoi.com/Georgikos/OrosKithairon.html

Myth of Aktaion and how he was disclosed as the "stag" he really was - one of the most important of Artemis' myths. Several other myths involving the same mountain.
www.greecetravel.com/greekmyths/thebes2.htm

Relevance of the mountain to the Oedipus story (and thus to our old "friend" Thebes):
www.bookrags.com/notes/oed/OBJ.htm

bethata418

cool thanks for the info.

would it be safe to say mount KITHARION=Mountain Abiegnus???

bethata418

THELEMA

another word i need help with is TRINC.

not much have i seen on it, only in heart of master & liber aleph.

AGAPE

FR.418

Jim Eshelman

@bethata418 said

"another word i need help with is TRINC."

You have to read Gargantua y Pantagruel by Rabelais to get this - especially the part of Chapter 5 called "How Bacbuc explained the word of the Goddess-Bottle." There isn't a straight-out definition. It's a "mystery word" in the context of a story. The following "TRINC links" might help:

ublic-library.net/eBooks/Adelaide/r/r11g/part267.html
www.gutenberg.org/etext/1200