LBRP
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Clarification
On Virgil's website, you can also click on Living Journal, then click on the hexagonal design in a circle over on the right.
Edward
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I guess I'll continue in this thread instead of creating a new one since my question is about the LBRP.
I've performed it to an extent that it feels like I've taken strong psychedelics - there's a sensation, like an energetic charge about my entire body that closely resembles that of the body load I've experienced while using psilocybine or LSD. I'm sorry to bring drugs into this (I haven't interpreted the forum rules to mean it's forbidden to discuss them, but I haven't seen anyone else write about them either, so I feel uncertain about it I admit), but I have no better means to compare my experience.
What I'm getting at is that I feel it is too intense for my taste and I want some advice about whether or not you think I should continue practising magick at all and some advice about what to do to "discharge" if that's possible.Let me explain the symptoms better: after two LBRPs with about 1-2 hours interval I almost felt like I was tripping heavily and had some pretty disturbing sensations during meditation directly after the first one. I came very far very fast in meditation compared to the experiences before starting to do the ritual this thoroughly. When I tried to sleep about an hour later I started to drift off, but not into what felt like drowsiness of sleep, but rather as if I was fainting. This has happened to me several times after doing the LBRP and every morning afterwards I wake up feeling pretty exhausted (any clues as to why?). This seems strange to me since the LBRP (which I blame for this) shouldn't do anything but banish negative magnetism as I understand it.
I've read that it enhances the aura and also the mood set one had before doing it, so if scared => scared to death, angry => pissed off etc., right? Well, even though I calmed down with a relaxation ritual before doing it the second time (which I did to make sure I hadn't attracted any negative spirits/charges/whatever, something it certainly felt like while trying to sleep) I lit up like a flash of electric energy; it was like my whole body had been thoroughly nudged all over against some surface causing static electricity and my hair stood on end, heavy body load sensations and increased heart rate. Later I had itches here and there, but the most important thing about the entire experience was the INTENSE energy boost I got. It was as if time went faster and I had to do things in slow motion to sync my environment regularly.Now, I've done the LBRP about once every night, followed by 30 minutes of meditation, for about a month or so (perhaps less and I've missed a day here and there every once in a while) and even if these sensations have been mildly (hence that word) present until now tonight was a BREAKTHROUGH and without doubt the most intense magickal experience I've ever had. And to return to drugs again (sorry), I had thought I could use that as a good indicator of what my mind was capable of putting up with. E.g. I've once taken 5g psilocybine and made it through fine aside from some hypertension here and there, but conclusively it was definitely positive experiences I don't mind repeating occasionally for the rest of my life, so with an attitude and capacity (or lack of) like that, would you say I have what it takes to practice magick (i.e. if you could relate to the symptoms described here would you continue?)?
And the second question again was, do you have any advice if I want to stabilize my mind so as not to experience these intense bursts of magick (to make experiences more analogous than digital, so to speak)?Oh, P.S. I'm also seeing light flashes in my peripheral visual field more or less constantly since doing the LBRP (which doesn't bother me), if that could help in making a judgment.
Thanks in advance!
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Malaclypse, I've never had anything like that happen to me. The only thing I've heard of that even comes close was a friend who performed the LBRP and then invoked Gabriel. Strangely, he was not facing West when he did and so had the shocking experience of being "gently turned around by the shoulder" by shock of shocks, Gabriel himself! I asked him if it was terrifying or what and his response was something like, "nothing can prepare you for it, that's for sure!" When I persisted in this line, his response was, "If magick scares you, then you're not doing it right." I thought about that one for a long time and still do. I guess he means that we're all temples of the in-dwelling God and as multi-plane beings, we have quite a bit of authority and power. But, I'm still not sure what I'd do if I had some sort of demonic activity in my house. I guess I'd try the LBRP, but if that didn't work, I'd probably just run away.
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You must know that the body and nervous system are a drug activated engine. Psychogenics force consciousness via excitation, and therefore its processes are not stable. The purpose of religion is to bring the self to harmony with the self, and as you do so the mystery of life is revealed. Only in extreme circumstances and under the most stable of conditions should one use drugs. It is not the means to any end, and it only has medicinal applications. Life is already magical, you just have to realize this. The directive within Liber Al was case specific and motivated by the most extreme circumstances. It is not the 'law is for all' as in 'hey everybody do this' corrupted interpretation. Don't do drugs for entertainment or experiment.
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>and so had the shocking experience of being "gently turned around by the shoulder" by shock of shocks, Gabriel himself! I asked him if it was terrifying or what and his response was something like, "nothing can prepare you for it, that's for sure!"
Hahaha!
>what I'd do if I had some sort of demonic activity in my house. I guess I'd try the LBRP, but if that didn't work, I'd probably just run away.
Hmm, do you think this seems like a demonic interference of some kind? I didn't think it was worth mentioning in my previous post because it seemed too trivial, but when I meditated I involuntarily came to think about Crowley and his ritual in the desert and I whispered the name "Choronzon" in my mind, but certainly not as some sort of invocation and immediately afterwards I also had a small inner monologue where I strictly convinced myself that I only sought out angels and the God concept in my travels. But all in all, if it was some demonic interference then that's the only thing I can think of that could've evoked it, but I still don't see how that's possible when I made the lesser "banishing" ritual of the pentagram.
What more could be of importance? Oh yeah, while initiating meditation I inwardly adressed my HGA about not being afraid no matter what might come, and like I said, it was the most intense meditation session I've experienced. I saw a fragment of a face flicker by very quickly (blue shaded) and I only instinctively realized it was looking at me with a tilted face seen from my perspective. That was the peak of the sensations and I instantly asked my HGA for protection (I had thought it would've been enough with the LBRP...). Someone has also told me it was a good thing to let the HGA do the talking with God instead of trying to get in first person contact and since I specifically said I wasn't going to get scared I guess the HGA said "suit yourself then..." and fed me too much.
Does this reasoning sound sound to you professionals? -
@Virgil said
"Life is already magical, you just have to realize this. The directive within Liber Al was case specific and motivated by the most extreme circumstances. It is not the 'law is for all' as in 'hey everybody do this' corrupted interpretation. Don't do drugs for entertainment or experiment."
That may be a very good advice, but the case mentioned above had absolutely nothing to do with drugs (perhaps some nicotine was still lingering somewhere inside me, but it was years since I took anything more potent than that). I just mentioned the drugs because it seems magick unlocks similar or the same faculties of the mind as most tryptamines.
And also, thanks for putting the bit about the function of religion so lucidly. It simplified matters for me.
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93,
"Hmm, do you think this seems like a demonic interference of some kind?"
Could I suggest that thinking along these lines can become a feedback loop? That we can talk ourselves into a one-way ticket to Paranoia Central? You seem, judging by your reference to Choronzon, to be auto-suggestible, which has benefits but also obvious drawbacks.
The LBRP is a regulatory ritual - it balances us. Now, if you've not determined what in yourself needs equilibrating before you start, you'd soon find out; you may react to the ritual's energies at first by manifesting exactly what needs to be equilibrated. The LBRP ought to be something you could use to calm down the somatic effects you're getting, by banishing volatile emotionality.
I once knew a woman who'd had a strict Christian upbringing, and claimed her curtains stood out whenever she tried the LBRP. She eventually realised it was all coming from inside, even if her curtains did physically move. I think she was disappointed, because she was psyched up for a battle with Evil, with herself as the heroine, and found it hard to recognize that magick was going to make her life more stable - not more exciting.
93 93/93,
Edward
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IMHO, there's far too much demonic obsession going on here these days. That is, some people are way too obsessed with worrying about demons.
This is kinda like being in semi-crisis because it might rain.
I'm dropping off this thread and won't be monitoring it any further. Nothing useful for me to do here.
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Sure, Malaclypse - np. Your comments motivated me to discourage the notion that drugs are an acceptable alternative to ritual. Ultimately, I don't care. Its an individual responsibility, and just as my responsibility is to elucidate the quintessential substance of Liber Al. I have no reason to doubt your integrity, nor am I predisposed to question it. Were I to lend criticism and advice given the indication of its desire, it would be to say that ritual and angels/spirits/or whomever serve no purpose without understanding, for what is power without it but a ' walking shadow - a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and is heard no more' (and to paraphrase a great philosopher and writer)? Therefore, given the presence of Archangelic intervention, it is never to play custodian and lead the audience to a movie theatre. Lesser angelic spirits, if truly present, will guide the true of heart to the understanding that they are a part of a greater whole. Some here play games with identity - I do not, nor do angels.
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@Edward Mason said
"Could I suggest that thinking along these lines can become a feedback loop? That we can talk ourselves into a one-way ticket to Paranoia Central? You seem, judging by your reference to Choronzon, to be auto-suggestible, which has benefits but also obvious drawbacks."
Yes it certainly is a drawback in my opinion and I am a chronic, sometimes even bordering on schizophrenic paranoia. Do you have any suggestions on how to get over it? This is definitely my biggest dent in the road. I'm way too much of a chicken for my own taste (OCD and related disorders see to that), so my subconscious don't allow me to get anywhere.
@Edward Mason said
"The LBRP is a regulatory ritual - it balances us. Now, if you've not determined what in yourself needs equilibrating before you start, you'd soon find out; you may react to the ritual's energies at first by manifesting exactly what needs to be equilibrated. The LBRP ought to be something you could use to calm down the somatic effects you're getting, by banishing volatile emotionality."
Ah, okay, that's about my understanding of it as well, but then how come it seemed to do the exact opposite? I'm positive that calming down was what I needed after that meditation and it got me even more excited instead.
Also, in relation to all this, any suggestions on how to,. with certainty, find out whether or not I have attracted any astral spirits, demons etc.? I thought about contacting a benign spirit and simply ask it. In such a case what sort of entity would be recommended?
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With regard to ritual in general, the road to where? To being - what? If deluded, as some are, you can surely talk amongst 'yourself' via multiple personality disorder, but Archangels aren't at your beckon call. If you need spiritual intervention to preserve sanity, then you wouldn't be manically twirliing about in your room.
Here is an important point in all religion: if the self is not the true-self, and that being absolute conscience, then don't endeavor to banish or summon. You can treat ritual like an exercise for so-called balance, but that doesn't require ritual - it requires stillness of heart.
As a side note: Malaclypse, using distortion of Greek terms, like revelation, doesn't help you. Conversely, it doesn't hamper the Apocalypse.
P.S. And while every man and woman is a star, that doesn't include qlipphotic entity.
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Malaclypse 93,
"I am a chronic, sometimes even bordering on schizophrenic paranoia."
All I can suggest, then, is that perhaps magick is not a solution, but something that makes the problems you face worse. Have you had a diagnosis made? That doesn't mean they'll lock you away. In Toronto, we had a schizophrenic who worked for many years as a professor of psychology. He learned to monitor his own case, and up his medication when he started noticing his life-patterns were going screwy (staying up late, finding he couldn't sleep, etc.). The University put up with him, because he was just fantastic at teaching abnormal psychology.
But, he had to admit he had an issue to manage before he got to that point.
I definitely think psilocybin and other psychedelics would be counter-indicated if you really are suffering from a condition that impairs your ability to manage life (whether it's one of the schizophrenic conditions or something else). Such things are treatable, but not escapable.
"Also, in relation to all this, any suggestions on how to,. with certainty, find out whether or not I have attracted any astral spirits, demons etc.? I thought about contacting a benign spirit and simply ask it. In such a case what sort of entity would be recommended?"
I wouldn't recomend any entity at all. If you are suffering from some kind of serious disorder, telling a benign entity from a bad one becomes impossible, because the essential boundary markers you need for working magically won't be in place. Benign entities and hostile ones become interchangeable.
The first sephirah the magician works is Malkuth, and the virtue of that sephirah is Discrimination. If you can't discriminate and decide for yourself what might be astral spirits or demons, and what is your own internal disorder, I can't see magick being a helpful path at all.
I guess that's not what you wanted to hear, but I don't have any other suggestion to offer.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Edward
@Edward Mason said
"All I can suggest, then, is that perhaps magick is not a solution, but something that makes the problems you face worse. Have you had a diagnosis made? That doesn't mean they'll lock you away."
Sorry, I guess I was too obscure, but I didn't mean that as vocabularly as it seems you took it. I'm certainly not schizo. I have a diagnosis of AS, but that is a rather mild case at that, so it shouldn't be a problem when it comes to defining which category some entity belongs to (in fact it should be the opposite when it comes to definition of things at all).
@Edward Mason said
"I definitely think psilocybin and other psychedelics would be counter-indicated if you really are suffering from a condition that impairs your ability to manage life (whether it's one of the schizophrenic conditions or something else). Such things are treatable, but not escapable."
I'm not so sure it makes me incapable to manage life in general, but I am overtly sensitive, so I guess you may be right saying that magick isn't really my thing, which is frustrating since it's about the only thing I'm interested in.
And it seems to me so far that magick for one thing could answer what psychedelics do with the brain. Ever since I started practicing I've wanted to know that. E.g. there are certainly other entities included in the mushroom trip and from what I understand they could very well be undynes or sylphs so I want to find out if they look and act the same.@Edward Mason said
"I wouldn't recomend any entity at all. If you are suffering from some kind of serious disorder, telling a benign entity from a bad one becomes impossible, because the essential boundary markers you need for working magically won't be in place. Benign entities and hostile ones become interchangeable."
Hm, certain of that? Because I guess this is what it all comes down to in the end of my case vs magick. The case I have is one that makes me more obsessed with exact definitions than neurotypicals, so it sounds instead like I should be better at it, but on the other hand I haven't gotten far in magick so I still don't know if that defining ability applies in the ethereal realm/s. E.g. I read in Regardie's The Middle Pillar that things are opposite from subconscious to conscious (that yin conciously is yang subconsciously and opposite with Chia/animus/conscious yang...), so it seems I might be obsessed with definitions here because I suck at it in the spiritual realm. Could that be correct?
@Edward Mason said
"The first sephirah the magician works is Malkuth, and the virtue of that sephirah is Discrimination. If you can't discriminate and decide for yourself what might be astral spirits or demons, and what is your own internal disorder, I can't see magick being a helpful path at all."
I'll certainly consider this, but I think I need to have a chat or two with some undyne or angel before I really decide to quit.
Thanks a lot for your help!
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Malaclypse, 93,
Okay, you were the lucky recipient of my "It's Friday and I'm grumpy" lecture. That wasn't fair to you - sorry.
I Googled Asperger's and got a slightly clearer picture of where you're at. I should add that I had a close friend who could not lessen or even examine her need to be involved with magick, and she did have psychotic episodes. When she finally went off her meds, she was toast. I still see her on the street sometimes with her bags, and once or twice I've talked with her and been given a lecture about the dark forces threatening us all.
I guess the main point I would make here is to suggest you look at what you're aiming for with magick. I have little interest in dealings with spirits per se, though obviously I regularly use magical techniques in my own work.
I came into this with a strictly philosophy-of-Thelema approach: that is, What do I really want to become and to do? Magick offers a practical path to realising that, but I don't see a lot of things that you (for instance) might often perceive. In my own work, the visual component is not very strong, though it does cut in emphatically at times. What I'm after is a search for the Centre and thus a better defined or appreciated relationship with the Whole. I figure that's a lifetime quest, at the least. And one that also needs questioning at times for its own obsessions.
I do believe there is really no such thing as an evil of benign spirit. There are just entities with characteristics and functions. Some spirits would be utterly destructive to me right now, but that would be because of my lack of preparedness, not their 'evil'. The Work has ordeals, which we're told "shall be half known and half concealed" - we can anticipate some aspects of what's coming up, but there will always be surprises and setbacks. Or sudden, unexpected advances.
Balancing ourselves is the primary task, at least to the point we can keep moving ahead. The only thing that occurs to me this morning is that you might want to look at devotional work (if you'e not already doing any). Liber Resh, mantra chanting ... there are various approaches. This tends to centre us more, especially if we're "I live in my head" types. It also offers 'back-avenues" for the HGA to communicate to us.
93 93/93,
Edward
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I spoke to someone regarding your situation, He said it would be best if you practiced invocation of spirits that would strengthen you before you do anymore banishing work. Otherwise, the "vaccuum" would have the old experiences of drug use boomerang in.
Just relaying what he said.
I do remember when I was doing TM, that Maharishi said drugs will open the door, but destroy the lock. So perhaps there is a tear in the fence that keeps the different dimensions separate.Hope you resolve this and gain comfort and ease in your path.
chrys333 -
@Edward Mason said
"Okay, you were the lucky recipient of my "It's Friday and I'm grumpy" lecture. That wasn't fair to you - sorry."
I didn't take anything you wrote as grumpy at all so no apology necessary; I was simply interested in the tips you gave.
But seeing as I get apologies from people here when I never notice even a slight bit of grumpiness I get scared that I might seem rude without knowing it, so sorry to anyone here who might've taken me that way.
@Edward Mason said
"I should add that I had a close friend who could not lessen or even examine her need to be involved with magick, and she did have psychotic episodes. When she finally went off her meds, she was toast."
Sorry to hear that. I'll take that warning into account, but I have to ask if the fact that she got toast might've been because she was mentally inhibited during her magickal work so that her mind got used to that kind of stimuli and it overloaded when she got back to "reality"?
@Edward Mason said
"I guess the main point I would make here is to suggest you look at what you're aiming for with magick. I have little interest in dealings with spirits per se, though obviously I regularly use magical techniques in my own work."
@Edward Mason said
"I came into this with a strictly philosophy-of-Thelema approach: that is, What do I really want to become and to do? SNIP! What I'm after is a search for the Centre and thus a better defined or appreciated relationship with the Whole. I figure that's a lifetime quest, at the least. And one that also needs questioning at times for its own obsessions."
Yes, that sounds a bit like my own search too. I have a vague notion of wanting to become enlightened (vague in the sense that I don't really know where it will take me, but so far centering sounds like a good plan) because I've recognized many of my own thoughts and ideas in writings on the subject throughout the years. With that I want to be of some use to others and so magick seems like the best (because best formulated) approach to help people help themselves explore life to the potential I think many of them are missing out on.
@Edward Mason said
"I do believe there is really no such thing as an evil of benign spirit. There are just entities with characteristics and functions. Some spirits would be utterly destructive to me right now, but that would be because of my lack of preparedness, not their 'evil'."
I see, but essentially that could be said about humans as well, but among us there are several groups I'd rather not have to face on their turf, like terrorists or people who hate me for my nationality etc. It's things like opposite motives than my own that troubles me, I guess. In another thread on this forum I read that there are theories of a 'war in heaven'. Now that I write this it seems that studying up on the collective rules in the spiritual realm seems like a good idea. Would that help do you think?
And thanks again for the help! I think Liber Resh sounds like another good idea.
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@Chris Hanlon said
"I spoke to someone regarding your situation, He said it would be best if you practiced invocation of spirits that would strengthen you before you do anymore banishing work. Otherwise, the "vaccuum" would have the old experiences of drug use boomerang in."
Aha, that sounds reasonable. Thanks! But does the vacuum mean the transition of the subconscious when it allows the higher realms work on this one? Could I also ask if you have any tips for specific spirits or is that an individual thing to answer?
@Chris Hanlon said
"I do remember when I was doing TM, that Maharishi said drugs will open the door, but destroy the lock. So perhaps there is a tear in the fence that keeps the different dimensions separate."
I hope that isn't the case, but it sure sounds like it could be it. Dang! And thanks a lot for your answer!
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Malaclypse, 93,
I don't think you need to feel bothered that you come across as aggressive. But since I often have the same problem with myself ... feel free to do so! If we didn't have ourselves to worry about, what would we do with the time?
As for my friend, she has a long, tortuous background. Magick, though, was a contributor in exacerbating her condition, even while she was convinced it was helping.
"...among us there are several groups I'd rather not have to face on their turf, like terrorists or people who hate me for my nationality etc. It's things like opposite motives than my own that troubles me, I guess. In another thread on this forum I read that there are theories of a 'war in heaven'. Now that I write this it seems that studying up on the collective rules in the spiritual realm seems like a good idea. Would that help do you think? "
I agree fully that there are situations to be avoided. I will NOT again walk through the South Side gof Chicago at night (don't ask....)
But one of the toughest issues to face in the Mysteries is that (a) we are generating our own life-situation, and (b) the hazards, threats and opposition we anticipate seem hazardous, threatening and opposing because of undigested or unaccepted or unassimilated ideas we carry within ourselves. If we approach situations with the assumption that we must beware of evil, then we have already, in a way, 'conjured' evil into our presence. There's no way out of this except by giving up the "Where does the threat lie?"game in our heads.
The war in heaven? My understanding of Thelema is that looks to transcend all dualities. Even the most cosmic of conflicts is simply, in the end, two mirrors reflecting each other's images. If we start thinking in terms of evil and demons, that's what appears in one mirror, and *voila *- it's immediately there in the other.
Address the fear first, and then the threat. Except, if you address the idea(s) underlying fear, the threat tends to disappear.
One other comment. Chris passed on:
"He said it would be best if you practiced invocation of spirits that would strengthen you before you do anymore banishing work. "
Okay. But how do you do an invocation without banishing first, and afterwards? Or did your contact mean invocation in the sense of chanting a Name like a mantra, which wouldn't call for a banishing first?
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"The war in heaven? My understanding of Thelema is that looks to transcend all dualities. Even the most cosmic of conflicts is simply, in the end, two mirrors reflecting each other's images. If we start thinking in terms of evil and demons, that's what appears in one mirror, and *voila *- it's immediately there in the other.
Address the fear first, and then the threat. Except, if you address the idea(s) underlying fear, the threat tends to disappear."
Yes, that's an ideal I agree with but I admit I still struggle with getting it into my head.
But let me rephrase the question, your honour. What should I bear in mind when I call upon an entity and what should I be prepared for when opening the rift to other realms if I want to stay as safe as possible? -
Two answers come to mind. One is that I don't know what practices you're doing, what the intent is, how much you understand about it all and what effect the work is really having on you, and that I'm therefore not the person who should answer that question.
The other answer is a general one: that in magick, we formulate an intent, and that intent shapes what follows. If we go into ritual (say, to call on a healing influence) with a sense of "Will there be demons lurking?" then we are confusing ourselves, and so compromising the outcome. We are carrying an element of fear around which fear-ful things will coalesce or crystallize. Intent - Will - is a determining factor, and for things to go right there may need to be many years of self-purification and balancing work necessary to ensure our rituals are effective. That's why we have Mystery Schools.
Edward