HGA
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93 All,
My apologies for the late response. I was called in to work for the last few days for an unscheduled shut down.
Quote DavidH
That was my question and it seems that people vary in opinion, which is expected. You seem to be saying that one can be doing ones "will" according the universe , hga, or what have you but not necessarily like it. Others seem to think that if you are doing your true will then you will be happy doing it ( I think). Slightly off topic, but that new book and DVD THE SECRET says that one way to know you are on the right track is by your emotions. If you feel Happy then you are on track. and at the same time you are attracting those things which make you happy.David, I work under a mechanical engineer who is one of the best I have ever worked with to date. This guy has a knowledge base that is vast, one of the best I have ever seen. He doesn't day dream (which really freaks me out personally) he is always on the job.
I personally wish, I had his ability to concentrate. He is what my company calls a Big Gun, due to his ability to walk on a job site and take over everything and fix it. Watching this man over the years, he also has the ability to step in to a crowed of people and do the same thing. His confidence in what he knows, along with his presence allows him to just take command of any given situation. It is his natural gift. But, with that being said, he is miserable with his life! Because he wanted to be an architect not an engineer.
I have told him on one occasion that he is an architect, he just works through a different medium. His only joy as far as I can tell is cooking. What amazes me is that this man was given this talent in life and he doesn't see it or care for it. My point is, if he would accept this talent as life’s gift he would be so much more happy. IMHO.
I have resolved a few of these issues in my life by Meditating on ATU-5 & ATU-14. I do my best to continually remind myself that I work for God. Life's Will, not my will but my HGA will. That is what is in control. Nothing at the personality level is running the show. So I am told and so I believe from my personal work. My work is to trust life under the guidance of the HGA ATU-14. I also, have to remind my self that my work is a necessary contribution to life. Maybe what I am getting at Dave is surrendering to an objective view of (Tiphareth) instead of a subjective one filled with emotional turmoil at the (Yesodic) level of the personally.
David, I don’t mean to get personal or change the subject but are you or have you gone through a SATURN return lately?
Quote: Heru:
Members of the Order are to regard those without its pale as possessing no rights of any kind, since they have not accepted the Law, and are therefore, as it were, troglodytes, survivals of a past civilization, and to be treated accordingly. Kindness should be shown toward them, as toward any other animal, and every effort should be made to bring them into Freedom.I know the above quote relates to the O.T.O. But it's still spot on with Crowley's apparent stance on a two-tier society of masters and slaves.
I would like to present a different point of view of the above quote. What I am hearing is that A.C. is speaking of service to humanity. By helping humanity raise it’s consciousness from a Yesodic/animal level to that of Tiphareth/human level. I don’t think he was speaking of a two-tier society. IMO.
BTW, loved the toilet and donkey work analogous. I agree whole heartily.
Quote Chris Halon:
Frater Deen,
I got your point, but don't totally agree. It is true that we can go chase a mirage when the reality is right before us and therefore not choose what will ultimately bring us happiness.Chris, this reminds me of a episode of American Idol were this contestant was horrible and was told they would be better off doing something else. I agreed! The contestant then told everyone there, that one day he would be famous not matter what they said!
Then the guy ran out to his mother in tears and told her all the terrible thing that the judges told him!
The mother then hugged him and told the guy don’t worry baby one day you will be famous no matter what any one of those mean Judges say.
This guy may have had talent in some thing but, singing was not one of them! I think this was the first time someone ever gave the guy an honest opinion of his self proclaimed talent.
If we listen to our life, our life will tell us what we are cut out to do. Not what we would like to think we are cut out to do. BTW Chris, I am also a firm believer that everything is learned. We are not born knowing anything.
Love is the Law Love under Will.
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@Fraterdeen said
"Quote: Heru:
"Members of the Order are to regard those without its pale as possessing no rights of any kind, since they have not accepted the Law, and are therefore, as it were, troglodytes, survivals of a past civilization, and to be treated accordingly. Kindness should be shown toward them, as toward any other animal, and every effort should be made to bring them into Freedom."
I know the above quote relates to the O.T.O. But it's still spot on with Crowley's apparent stance on a two-tier society of masters and slaves."
I have no reason to believe this was his general view at all. The Law is for all. But I tend to put things in perspective for myself with what a friend of mine calls the "packing peanut" theory of society. You know what packing peanuts are, right? Those styrofoam pieces that finish filling up a box so that the valued thing inside will arrive safely?
Well, to the extent that people aren't willing to wake up and get who they are - aren't willing to rise to their own truth - they exist in society primarily as packing peanuts. Those who know and do their True Will are the contents of the box that the packing peanuts are helping get delivered safely. This isn't at all a slave-master society (for example) because people are picking their level and living it.
Besides: The slaves shall serve! The difference between a slave and a servant isn't in what they are doing but in whether they do it by choice. I take the above line from Liber L. as a promise that even those who are at present slaves shall become servants - the highest designation in the Mysteries. The means for this? Knowing and doing your True Will.
"I would like to present a different point of view of the above quote. What I am hearing is that A.C. is speaking of service to humanity. By helping humanity raise it’s consciousness from a Yesodic/animal level to that of Tiphareth/human level. I don’t think he was speaking of a two-tier society. IMO.
"As you can see, we basically agree.
"If we listen to our life, our life will tell us what we are cut out to do."
Yes!
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@Jim said
"This isn't at all a slave-master society (for example) because people are picking their level and living it."
I absolutely agree Jim. You just summarized in one sentence what I was TRYING to get at all along!
@Jim said
"Besides: The slaves shall serve! The difference between a slave and a servant isn't in what they are doing but in whether they do it by choice. I take the above line from Liber L. as a promise that even those who are at present slaves shall become servants - the highest designation in the Mysteries. The means for this? Knowing and doing your True Will. "
That beautiful Jim. When it come to articulating the Law you are in the stratosphere man.
@Jim said
"Servant- the highest designation in the Mysteries."
Wow!!
@Jim said
"The means for this? Knowing and doing your True Will."
Would this include Seeing the Unity of Life
Love is the Law Love under Will
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@Fraterdeen said
"
@Jim said
"The means for this? Knowing and doing your True Will."Would this include Seeing the Unity of Life
"That's often an (immediate or eventual) side-effect. But, for the specific level I mentioned, seeing the integrating Unity of oneself is more the step.
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@Her said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I have no reason to believe this was his general view at all. The Law is for all."Really? Crowley's commentaries on the Book of the Law positively reek of Social Darwinism.
"I made that statement for a couple of reasons.
First, I don't read his (matured) underlying position as ever being different from standing for each being doing its Will - actualized and fulfilled.
Second, in much that he wrote (especially during the '20s), there is a tendency to rhetoric bordering on the ingenuous. He was always willing to make a point for the sake of impact. For example, what looks like, "Kick the bums when they're down" (which plays better for impact), is more of, "Let the chips fall where they may." (Actually, that's real social Darwinism.)
Nothing in that suggests to me that his actual general view was a two-tier master-slave class.
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@zeph said
""Nor is it fitting for the cobbler to prate of the Royal matter. O cobbler! mend me this shoe, that I may walk. O king! if I be thy son, let us speak of the Embassy to the King thy Brother. - <i>Liber LXV</i>, I:11"
I thought that was merely a warning against confusing the planes?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Nothing in that suggests to me that his actual general view was a two-tier master-slave class."
"The Book announces a new dichotomy in human society; there is the master and there is the slave; the noble and the serf; the "lone wolf" and the herd. ~ Magick Without Tears"
Elsewhere in MWT Crowley says to hell altruism. But isn't this the great failure of Social Darwinism? Altruistic behaviours are exhibted by many species of animals besides man. Therefore altruism is a part of nature and the natual order. How does ignoring aspects of nature square with the Law of Thelema? As far as I can see it would run completely counter to it.
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I'm not speaking of altruism at all. I agree that he pretty much always spoke out against that.
I'm speaking of social efficiency. The only fuly efficient society in the new time is one in which all beings are awakened to their True Will and doing it. If their role is to serve (and, ultimately, all roles are to serve), then that's the function.
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@zeph said
""Nor is it fitting for the cobbler to prate of the Royal matter. O cobbler! mend me this shoe, that I may walk. O king! if I be thy son, let us speak of the Embassy to the King thy Brother. - <i>Liber LXV</i>, I:11"
There is also this:
"Be not as the As$ in the Lion's Skin; but if thou be born As$, bear patiently thy Burdens, and enjoy thy Thistles; for an As$ also, as in the Fables of Apuleius and Matthias, may come to Glory in the Path of his own Virtue. - Liber Aleph, zeta, DE NATURA SUA PERCIPIENDA"
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not speaking of altruism at all. I agree that he pretty much always spoke out against that."
But the fact that 20 years later in the 1940's Crowley was still ranting against altruism is proof that his hardcore Social Darwinistic ideas were still very much alive and kicking. Antipathy towards altruism is the main downfall of Social Darwinism and the reason for it being such a discredited and incorrect interpretation of Darwin's theory.
But here's the big question. If the long discredited theory of Social Darwinism forms part of Crowley's idea for Thelema, what does that say about Thelema? It's kind of like having a theory of the universe that includes the "flat earth" model at it's centre.
Crowley's ranting against altruism is a case of the "pot calling the kettle black". We all know that Crowley was a financial and social parasite who sponged his way through life. For much of his life he was dependent on the altruism and good will of others to open their wallets to keep him afloat. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
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@Her said
"But here's the big question. If the long discredited theory of Social Darwinism forms part of Crowley's idea for Thelema, what does that say about Thelema?"
I don't think one should confuse Crowley's idea for Thelema with... Thelema. He isn't it's source. He's only the most intimate witness to its communication.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I don't think one should confuse Crowley's idea for Thelema with... Thelema. He isn't it's source. He's only the most intimate witness to its communication."
I'm reminded of a couple of lines from chp.56 of The Book of Lies:
"So wrote not FRATER PERDURABO, but the Imp Crowley in his Name.
And yet who knoweth which is Crowley, and which is FRATER PERDURABO?"
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93
Heru wrote
"forms part of Crowley's idea for Thelema, what does that say about Thelema? It's kind of like having a theory of the universe that includes the "flat earth" model at it's centre. "
Jim wrote
"I don't think one should confuse Crowley's idea for Thelema with... Thelema. He isn't it's source. He's only the most intimate witness to its communication."
Thelema is not a theory. It is Law.
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