Crowley's incarnations
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Really? I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus. Perhaps it is the gaging reaction I have to much of Crowley's writings, or perhaps it is lack of exposure to the earlier life of Jesus, and ergo his faults. Also, the whole heroine problem, his sexest behavior..and the way he crossed over....? Humm maybe two grains of salt. I would have guessed Case over Crowley anyday. But what do I know? Not too much really.
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Thanks once more Jim!
TripleFlower: A few things I've heard about Jesus is that he could have a really bad temper, but that's about the only thing I know. He used to drink wine too. But I think the fact that the prophets had vices could be part of the plan, to show the entire humanity that they're only human and that anyone can attain to their level. But then again, I almost certainly don't know a lot.
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@TripleFlower said
"I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus."
THere is, as you may know, serious question of whether Jesus actually existed. You do know (don't you?) that there are no historical accounts of him written during his actual (alleged) lifetime except that of Josephus, which is known to have been later doctored and falsified.
Personally, I think there was a historic figure of that name around whom the Middle Eastern mystery school myths coalesced... but the historic record is pretty thin.
"Also, the whole heroine problem"
You know (don't you?) that this was a prescribed medicine.
"his sexest behavior"
Society has come a long way. By today's standards, Crowley was an abominable sexist. But, in his time, he was a "bleeding edge" feminist. I repeat: The world has really progressed in this regard in the intervening decades.
"and the way he crossed over"
I wonder which apocryphal story you have in mind. He had a rather peaceful, serene death.
"I would have guessed Case over Crowley anyday."
Case, at best, never got past the 7=4 grade.
And you may not know the stories about Case's personality traits. His sainthood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them.
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@Malaclypse said
"A few things I've heard about Jesus is that he could have a really bad temper, but that's about the only thing I know. He used to drink wine too. But I think the fact that the prophets had vices could be part of the plan, to show the entire humanity that they're only human and that anyone can attain to their level."
Of Christ, Case, and Crowley, AC is the only one not noted for a pretty ugly bad temper.
But I think your last point is the most important. One of the things I have always most admired about Crowley is that, in the fashion of Blavatsky, he manifest a personality that would discourage the masses from emulating him. It's not about emulation of another - instead, it's about walking the same road, but (increasingly) as oneself.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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"his sexest behavior"Society has come a long way. By today's standards, Crowley was an abominable sexist. But, in his time, he was a "bleeding edge" feminist. I repeat: The world has really progressed in this regard in the intervening decades."
Regardless, Crowley strikes me as more complicated than this. He very often said nasty things about women as a whole, but he seems to have, at least on many occassions, attacked not anything innate in women, but the constructions of femininity at the time he lived, constructions that greatly hindered women, as well as men. Of course, he did also seem to treat some women pretty horribly, dominating them and even using them. But I wonder, does this distinguish him from how he treated the men in his life? Perhaps it does, I just don't know.
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My own take on AC:
As far as his mundane biography goes, Crowley is either known from the books about him (none, that I know of, by anyone very deep into a mystical or magical path, except for Regardie), or from his own <i>Confessions</i>, which is a book colored by the attitudes of his time, and of course written <i>for</i> people colored by those same attitudes.
He was also forever dealing with the repressions, and reactions to them, that a Victorian English childhood gave him. The Confessions especially reflects a life formed during Britain's greatest imperial expansion, and the immense struggle of so many people to shake off the tight-laced corsets of conformity and false propriety. Exasperation with self ("Why can't I just be me?") is a theme frequently expressed by writers who were raised in that world, and AC seems no exception, even if he found ways to resolve, or at least address, many of the issues he faced.
The Holy Books and the best mystical instructions, on the other hand, stand wholly outside of that cultural and personal conditioning. Biographers like John Symonds or Colin Wilson either ignore them or dismiss them as incomprehensible ramblings - which, to such writers, they are. But before we can form any idea of who or what he was, or what he embodied, we have to take all that side of him into account.
I found that once my own attention shifted away from individual acts of meanness or blindness to the sheer focus he brought to bear on the highest of goals, the whole business of the mean, bad Beast began to seem far less relevant: to me, to him, or to his life work.
Edward
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@TripleFlower said
"Really? I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus."
I have a tough time considering that a great many people have not surpassed the evolutionary growth of Jesus. Dude lived two thousand years ago; humanity's evolution alone probably brings a great many people relatively near to his level.
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93 All,
Don't forget the tag-team incarnations (with Fr. L. T.) listed in the magickal record of The Paris Working.
93 93/93,
Fr. Z. T.
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"His stainhood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them."
His "stainhood" is pretty interesting. Makes sense, though. Actually, very accurate. Reminds me of gematria.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
""His stainhood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them."
His "stainhood" is pretty interesting. Makes sense, though. Actually, very accurate. Reminds me of gematria.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333"ROFLMAO - I've fixed it now.
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@Edward Mason said
"...As far as his mundane biography goes, Crowley is either known from the books about him (none, that I know of, by anyone very deep into a mystical or magical path, except for Regardie)..."
What about [www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j) by Dr. Richard Kaczynski
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"I have a tough time considering that a great many people have not surpassed the evolutionary growth of Jesus. Dude lived two thousand years ago; humanity's evolution alone probably brings a great many people relatively near to his level"
Yeah, but Zeph, from an evolutionary stand point, that isn't much time at all.
Jim,
I hear what you are saying concerning the faults I pointed out of Crowleys. I didn't know that the heroine addiction was prescription, but I am not suprised as bayer once marketed heroine as "super asprin" in an OTC formula. However, I feel that AC should have known what was best for him, and not trusted the bad medicine. In other words, prescription does not equal excuse. Of course, this addiction could have occured before he attained? I don't know. I don't know my Thelemic history to be honest.
I understand what you said concering his sexest behavior and will take it into consideration from now on. Also, concerning his death, I thought he died alone in a small upstairs flat.
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Let's again revisit that Great People have Great Faults, everything 'bout them is Great. We can look at the man, we can look to the personality, we can judge by our limited exterior perspective. We may even deem these exterior things as detrimental, while perhaps, since they exist, they are necessary to the Will in a particular manifestation.
Then again most humans have complexes even the highly advanced ones.
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@TripleFlower said
"I didn't know that the heroine addiction was prescription, but I am not suprised as bayer once marketed heroine as "super asprin" in an OTC formula. However, I feel that AC should have known what was best for him, and not trusted the bad medicine. In other words, prescription does not equal excuse. Of course, this addiction could have occured before he attained? I don't know. I don't know my Thelemic history to be honest."
Heroine was a standard treatment for asthma. It had been prescribed from the time he was a young man, as a more or less daily treatment expected to be a lifetime maintenance medicine.
"Also, concerning his death, I thought he died alone in a small upstairs flat.
"Well, not alone. But yes, it was in a nice little well-maintained apartment. Is there something disparaging about that?
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"Ganesha is the first sound, OM, in which all hymns were born. When Shakti (Energy) and Shiva (Matter) meet, both Sound (Ganesha) and Light (Skanda) were born. He represents the perfect equilibrium between force and kindness and between power and beauty. He also symbolizes the discriminative capacities which provide the ability to perceive distinctions between truth and illusion, the real and the unreal."
Doesn't this sound like Jesus, Mary? Or Osiris and Isis?
Shakti is like Nuit, and Shiva like Geb.
Also, Tiphareth is the center (Sun/Son) of the Tree of Life, connects the Supernals from the rest of the sephorith. Saturn is the son of the Sun, and Malkuth is the last (or first) path of the Tree of Life.There is no worship in Thelema, right? Just self development to unveil the divinity within?
Thanks,
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
"There is no worship in Thelema, right? Just self development to unveil the divinity within?"
There is very deep and profound worship in Thelema. It is even referenced several times in Liber Legis:
I:9. Worship then the Khabs, and behold my light shed over you!
II:8. Who worshipped Heru-pa-kraath have worshipped me; ill, for I am the worshipper.
II:22. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.
II:78. Lift up thyself! for there is none like unto thee among men or among Gods! Lift up thyself, o my prophet, thy stature shall surpass the stars. They shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man; and the name of thy house 418.
II:79. The end of the hiding of Hadit; and blessing & worship to the prophet of the lovely Star!
III:4-9. Choose ye an island! Fortify it! Dung it about with enginery of war! I will give you a war-engine. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house.
III:11. This shall be your only proof. I forbid argument. Conquer! That is enough. I will make easy to you the abstruction from the ill-ordered house in the Victorious City. Thou shalt thyself convey it with worship, o prophet, though thou likest it not. Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!
III:22. The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me. I am the visible object of worship; the others are secret; for the Beast & his Bride are they: and for the winners of the Ordeal x. What is this? Thou shalt know.
III:34. But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awake the lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globщd priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!
III:45. Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy: with my force shall she see & strike at the worship of Nu: she shall achieve Hadit.
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@TripleFlower said
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"I have a tough time considering that a great many people have not surpassed the evolutionary growth of Jesus. Dude lived two thousand years ago; humanity's evolution alone probably brings a great many people relatively near to his level"Yeah, but Zeph, from an evolutionary stand point, that isn't much time at all."
Not a long time when considering the evolution of, say, a tree sloth to a human; but the evolution of human consciousness seems to be going rather more quickly. Not too long ago, thunder was an awfully scary thing. In the even more recent past, women were considered inferior creatures. Jesus probably though the Earth was at the center of the Universe. &c.
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To touch just a bit more on this: I've heard, and believe, that what we call Aeons in Thelema are the marked stages of human evolution. That is, briefly, that the prior Aeon, that of Osiris, was concerned primariliy with the evolution of human self-consciousness; and that now, in the Aeon of Horus, humanity is primarily concerned with the direct reception/perception of superconsciousness -- made possible by the fact that we've become awfully good at self-consciousness. Maybe even too good.
The folks who believe we're already in, or are concurrently within, the next Aeon of the Double-Wanded One obviously disagree with me.
