Tzaddi is not the Star
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@Her said
"Is it possible that Crowley considered both the Star and the Emperor's old and new attributions to be both correct but in different ways? There is a footnote in chapter 4 of Magick in Theory and Practice where Crowley refers to the Emperor/Heh attribution as "exoteric". Although he doesn't say so himself I assume that Crowley thought the Star/Heh attribution was the "esoteric" correspondence. Could this possibly be the reason why Crowley seems to mix these two cards up in The Book of Thoth?"
Anything is possible, of course.
But this one isn't likely. Crowley's writings need to be understood in terms of the time when they were written.
There's one era when he's clearly confused in the sense of "still working it out."
There's another era when he appears to have it very clearly worked out but, by his understanding of Liber L., he wasn't revealing it. (It says he was to reveal it to "the wise," which he took as meaning not to disclose it to just anyone.)
By the time of The Book of Thoth - at the end of his life - he had decided that the unwise wouldn't understand what he was saying anyway, so he might as well go ahead and say it. However, there are still some stumbles in the delivery.
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I'm still at the stage of trying to learn why the cards are where they are on the ToL. Given this, does full appreciation of the Emperor/Star switch hinge upon a good understanding of the original Golden Dawn scheme?
If you make even a small change to a fixed system without a full understanding of that system you won't be able to fully grasp the implications of any change made.
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@Her said
"I'm still at the stage of trying to learn why the cards are where they are on the ToL. Given this, does full appreciation of the Emperor/Star switch hinge upon a good understanding of the original Golden Dawn scheme?"
No.
Though the more depth of understanding you have, the better."If you make even a small change to a fixed system without a full understanding of that system you won't be able to fully grasp the implications of any change made."
I never regarded this as a change. I don't think it was an evolution or a cosmic switch. I think it was an error that went undetected until it was set aright.
It might be easier for your to proceed by coming to understanding how Heh is The Star. That one is soooooooooo easy and self-evident from every possible angle, that it may be the place to start.
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Is the text of Liber Arcanorum and it's attribution to the seals of the Mercurial and Qlipphotic geniis effected by the Star/Emperor switch? Lines 4 and 17 contain elements that seem to be suggestive of both cards.
"4. Now riseth Ra-Hoor-Khuit, and dominion is established in the Star of the Flame.
17.Transformed, the holy virgin appeared as a fluidic fire, making her beauty into a thunderbolt."
In his Tarot of Ceremonial Magick, Lon Milo DuQuette places the Mercurial and Qlipphotic seals of the letter Heh on the Star and those of the letter Tzaddi on the Emperor card. I assume from this that he considers line 4 of the text of Arcanorum to relate to the Star and line 17 to the Emperor. But isn't the mention of Ra-Hoor-Khuit in line 4 a little out of place with the Star? And vice versa the "holy virgin" and the "thunderbolt" with the Emperor?
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@Her said
"Is the text of Liber Arcanorum and it's attribution to the seals of the Mercurial and Qlipphotic geniis effected by the Star/Emperor switch? Lines 4 and 17 contain elements that seem to be suggestive of both cards."
That was received before Crowley made the switch - I've always questioned the Class A status of that particular work because it is clearly his intellectual assessment expressed in verse.
Remember what I said about evaluating his writings in terms of the time they were written and his point of view at the time.
Or, another p.o.v. which protects the Class A status: Notice that Liber Arcanorum is nly valid up to 7=4, that is, within the bounds of the Ruach. It is an intellectual, philosophical formulation that is explicitly said not to be valid within Supernal consciousness. (That's probably why it feels more like a Class B Document to me.) And, since the secret of Heh being The Star was only to be revealed to The Wise (Chokmah?)...
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Wow-zers. After reading Lon Milo DuQuette's explanation of the switch in "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" today, I see that this really, really makes a lot of sense.
(( I'm not sure what "the original arrangement" of the trumps was, though. DuQuette mentions that the Golden Dawn swapped Strength and Adjustment's trump order (8 and 11) in order to get the zodiac and hebrew letters to line up properly... but, where did they get this original arrangement from? I thought there were many various orders of these cards with no real known "original" order. I presume based on this that the "original" order gave Strength #11 and Adjustment #8, but where did this original order come from? ))
Having swapped the correspondences, but keeping the original order puts a funny little twist in the zodiac belt... but, this twist is duplicated on the opposite side with the Tzaddi and Hé swap. Looking at the strip, it looks very, very correct to me. There are lots of reasons why I feel this way and many of them are spelled out in the book. But, some that are not: just looking at Hé, the window and the breath of life, leading from Chokmah to Tiphareth across from Zain, the will exerted over the opposites, leading from Binah to Tiphareth--and Lust overlapping that general area-- looks so right! Hé is a female letter coming from a male sephiroth and Zain is a male letter coming from a female sephiroth-- combine this with the dual sexual nature of Gemini, the phallic sword and the sex of Lust around the balanced center of the Tree-- the universal essence begetting and harmonizing.
Makes sense!
Also, this puts a hidden star behind the sun (Sirius?)-- the star that the "old aeon" used for meditation relating to the subconscious process of "the moon" and here then down at the bottom is the Emperor connecting the moon and Venus with his male energy of Aries... this makes a lot of sense considering the ruler impregnates his lunar subconscious with his desires.
It also seems pretty obvious why it took a while to figure it out and why it took a genius such as Crowley to do so!
I like it, I like it. What did I miss/screw up?
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@Redd Fezz said
"Wow-zers. After reading Lon Milo DuQuette's explanation of the switch in "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" today, I see that this really, really makes a lot of sense."
Welcome to the real world
"I'm not sure what "the original arrangement" of the trumps was, though. DuQuette mentions that the Golden Dawn swapped Strength and Adjustment's trump order (8 and 11) in order to get the zodiac and hebrew letters to line up properly... but, where did they get this original arrangement from?"
From all Tarot decks of the preceeding few hundred years. (Not all Tarot decks ever because it took a century or so for it to shake out - but definitely from every deck from the immediately preceeding few centuries. That is, all pre-Waite.)
"I thought there were many various orders of these cards with no real known "original" order."
Not for several hundred years pre-GD.
"I presume based on this that the "original" order gave Strength #11 and Adjustment #8, but where did this original order come from?"
Yes. As to where... long story, but I think Case's report on the creation of Tarot is probably either the truth or something very representative of the truth.
"Also, this puts a hidden star behind the sun (Sirius?)"
Well, Kether and the Gimel = Isis correspondences already did that. But, then, the Sirius symbolism is actually in all three Paths connecting Tifereth to the Supernals.
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@Redd Fezz said
"Cool! Do you know where I can read more about Sirius. It's still a bit of a mystery to me (hehe, yes, a "Sirius Mystery")."
Well... There's always The Sirius Mystery. Also, R.H. Allen's Star Names and miscellaneous scattered writings of Cyril Fagan.
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I like how that last post made absolutely no sense to me at all, but I had the most fun speculating on whether or not you really meant inquiring natural intelligence or ACQUIRING natural intelligence. I took a good minute or so trying to read it both ways. Congratulations on using English to speak alien.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Maybe this is a start: The Emperor is "Sovereign Reason," by which the abundant instinctual energies of Yesod are lifted up unto those channels of devotion and desire that characterize Netzach."
I think I'm finally beginning to understand this.
The primal instincts of Yesod need to be harnessed and guided by the controlling influence of the Emperor, rather then be spiritualised away by the Star. The old attribution of the Star on the 28th path is symptomatic of old aeon attitudes towards the primal aspect of mankind. It therefore becomes incompatible with the formula of the new aeon.Cigar or no cigar?
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As the sun is a symbol of Tiphareth, Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether. Dont get into a ridiculous search for aliens on Sirius or that anything of worth is on the physical star. Its a symbol.
If you are familiar with the Gnostic Mass, you might want to re-consider these lines as referring to this Sirus/Kether idea as being the sun behidn the sun:
Thou who art I, beyond all I am, / Who hast no nature and no name, / Who art, when all but Thou are gone / Thou, centre and secret of the Sun, / Thou, hidden spring of all things known / And unknown, Thou aloof, alone, / Thou, the true fire within the reed/Brooding and breeding, source and seed / Of life, love, liberty, and light, / Thou beyond speech and beyond sight, etc....
65 & 210,
111-418 -
@aum418 said
"As the sun is a symbol of Tiphareth, Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether. Dont get into a ridiculous search for aliens on Sirius or that anything of worth is on the physical star. Its a symbol."
I was talking about the implications of the Emperor and Star on the 28th path not the 15th. But thanks for the input anyway.
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"Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether."
Now are we talking about the Writings of Keneth Grant or is this referential to other 'pertinent' material?
Where does this reality come from to suggest that Sirius is KETHER?
Hmm..... [wink]
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"the Sirius symbolism is actually in all three Paths connecting Tifereth to the Supernals."Also, on another note
, how is the Sirius symbolism in the path of The Lovers?"Simplest answer: Sirius' actual longitude is 19° Gemini.
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Isn't it even three stars? When I read The Sirius Mystery the man said "Sirius C", which was found sometime in the seventies.