Tzaddi is not the Star
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Redd Fezz said
"Wow-zers. After reading Lon Milo DuQuette's explanation of the switch in "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" today, I see that this really, really makes a lot of sense."
Welcome to the real world
"I'm not sure what "the original arrangement" of the trumps was, though. DuQuette mentions that the Golden Dawn swapped Strength and Adjustment's trump order (8 and 11) in order to get the zodiac and hebrew letters to line up properly... but, where did they get this original arrangement from?"
From all Tarot decks of the preceeding few hundred years. (Not all Tarot decks ever because it took a century or so for it to shake out - but definitely from every deck from the immediately preceeding few centuries. That is, all pre-Waite.)
"I thought there were many various orders of these cards with no real known "original" order."
Not for several hundred years pre-GD.
"I presume based on this that the "original" order gave Strength #11 and Adjustment #8, but where did this original order come from?"
Yes. As to where... long story, but I think Case's report on the creation of Tarot is probably either the truth or something very representative of the truth.
"Also, this puts a hidden star behind the sun (Sirius?)"
Well, Kether and the Gimel = Isis correspondences already did that. But, then, the Sirius symbolism is actually in all three Paths connecting Tifereth to the Supernals.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Redd Fezz said
"Cool! Do you know where I can read more about Sirius. It's still a bit of a mystery to me (hehe, yes, a "Sirius Mystery")."
Well... There's always The Sirius Mystery. Also, R.H. Allen's Star Names and miscellaneous scattered writings of Cyril Fagan.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
I like how that last post made absolutely no sense to me at all, but I had the most fun speculating on whether or not you really meant inquiring natural intelligence or ACQUIRING natural intelligence. I took a good minute or so trying to read it both ways. Congratulations on using English to speak alien.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Jim Eshelman said
"Maybe this is a start: The Emperor is "Sovereign Reason," by which the abundant instinctual energies of Yesod are lifted up unto those channels of devotion and desire that characterize Netzach."
I think I'm finally beginning to understand this.
The primal instincts of Yesod need to be harnessed and guided by the controlling influence of the Emperor, rather then be spiritualised away by the Star. The old attribution of the Star on the 28th path is symptomatic of old aeon attitudes towards the primal aspect of mankind. It therefore becomes incompatible with the formula of the new aeon.Cigar or no cigar?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
As the sun is a symbol of Tiphareth, Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether. Dont get into a ridiculous search for aliens on Sirius or that anything of worth is on the physical star. Its a symbol.
If you are familiar with the Gnostic Mass, you might want to re-consider these lines as referring to this Sirus/Kether idea as being the sun behidn the sun:
Thou who art I, beyond all I am, / Who hast no nature and no name, / Who art, when all but Thou are gone / Thou, centre and secret of the Sun, / Thou, hidden spring of all things known / And unknown, Thou aloof, alone, / Thou, the true fire within the reed/Brooding and breeding, source and seed / Of life, love, liberty, and light, / Thou beyond speech and beyond sight, etc....
65 & 210,
111-418 -
I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@aum418 said
"As the sun is a symbol of Tiphareth, Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether. Dont get into a ridiculous search for aliens on Sirius or that anything of worth is on the physical star. Its a symbol."
I was talking about the implications of the Emperor and Star on the 28th path not the 15th. But thanks for the input anyway.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
"Sirius is a symbol of that 'sun behind the sun' or Kether."
Now are we talking about the Writings of Keneth Grant or is this referential to other 'pertinent' material?
Where does this reality come from to suggest that Sirius is KETHER?
Hmm..... [wink]
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@gmugmble said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"the Sirius symbolism is actually in all three Paths connecting Tifereth to the Supernals."Also, on another note
, how is the Sirius symbolism in the path of The Lovers?"Simplest answer: Sirius' actual longitude is 19° Gemini.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
Isn't it even three stars? When I read The Sirius Mystery the man said "Sirius C", which was found sometime in the seventies.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
I disagree with Jim E. here, so let me state it:
"All these old letters of my Book are aright" to me means they are freaking aright, don't be so stupid ass as to mess with them. Anyone with half a brain can see Crowley just messed up the ancient Hebraic order. He should have castrated himself from the Order like he did Parsifallen for his B.S., Bachelors of Shitty Understanding!
The correct interpretation is that indeed all the Hebrew letters are aright, but Tzaddi is not named in English "The Star". My successful solution to this verse instigated my Liber DCLXVI Ordeal of 1999, where I was made to discover all the True English Tarot Names (which was for me to do, & which would have bogged down Liber Legis by so listing). It would be stupid for me to discourse it further, as I know now how little anyone truly cares.
But the correct solution I can simply reveal as:
Key XVII = 18, 90 = THE SUN = Aquarius = Purple.
Key XVIII = 19, 100 = THE MOON = Pisces = Red-Violet.
Key XIX = 20, 200 = THE STAR = Sun = Yellow.So in short it is that Key XIX is THE STAR, not Key XVII. Note also how these names have a nice flow now, as THE SUN, THE MOON, THE STAR, & that Aquarius-Pisces are now nicely conjoined as THE SUN & THE MOON.
Now I realize this sails over the head, & is incomplete without my whole Liber, but I still know it is important that I expose the sham begun by Crowley & continued by his blind followers, for which this AA is a Prime example.
Yes, TVRANNIS TERRIBILIS's Light is Extreme...ly True, even as USTATOS = 121 as "last, extreme" in Serial Greek. I would suggest leaving L.A. for some more natural AIThHR...since it does not seem conducive to Truth.
H.H.H.H.H.
4774 -
I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Wizardiaoan said
"It would be stupid for me to discourse it further, as I know now how little anyone truly cares."
Wow!!! You're psychic.
@Wizardiaoan said
"Now I realize this sails over the head"
Yep.
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
The light descends on the Emperor from the upper right corner, and he is looking away from it.
The woman in the Star card pours water from the upper right corner where she looks directly into the vessel of liquid (light?)
Could this explain the significance of the switch?
I'm feasting on the idea that the Emperor has an HGA on his shoulder telling him what to do... and the Star is the HGA looking forward directly into the realm of possibilities and transforming them to her will.
Food for thought - other ideas are most welcome...
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Wizardiaoan said
"... it is important that I expose the sham begun by Crowley & continued by his blind followers, for which this AA is a Prime example."
Hey! Thanks for the exposé - It really means a lot to ALL of us (pardon me if I'm speaking for someone who disagrees).
I guess we'll all just have to burn our Crowley books, resign from the A.'.A.'. (assuming we're not off-centerline on the Tree), and go looking for some new MahaGuru. Got anyone in mind Wizard?
. -
I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
I apologize for my initial post (as well as one or two others); I underwent an extreme initiation in mid-march which made my Will too severe for a time. I think the A.A. Jim represents is doing good for and by the universe.
I do not advise blind devotion to any mahaguru, nor to any idea or concept without consideration--yes I disagree with Crowley on a few points, but still think his output is very excellent. I accept Liber Legis as the aeonic tantra.
I do not think Crowley interpreted Tzaddi being "not the Star" correct, as I state in my original post. This finding in 1999 made me receive a book of the "correct" English names for the Trumps, as well as an expansion of the Trumps to a 30-fold system; it is called Liber DCLXVI Satan. It uses 5 as Aries and 18/90 as Aquarius, and the normal attributes for the first 22 Keys. Then 23-30 are:
23/500: Water of Earth
24/600: Earth of Earth
25/700: Air of Earth
26/800: Fire of Earth
27/900: Earth (elemental)
28/1000: Earth (planetary)
29/2000: Spirit
30/3000: QuintessenceThis Key 30 is "the Key of it all", whose symbol is the 4774 Sword (this glyph is the solution to AL III:47). Its color is black as that which contains all within it. I think this Tarot sequence is rather like the magickal periodical table, which is why I think all alphabets conform to it by place value.
I now think there are 37 Keys to the universe (one proof is that this sums the Tarot to 93 as 56+37). These also represent the stages of the soul's enlightenment, for instance 22 is enlightenment in Binah, the last Key of a Magister Templi. 23-28 are all within Chokmah, and this reveals that the Magus grade is all about the earthing of the magickal current. 29 is solely in Kether. 30 is that of the Ain.
To follow me on my Keys 31-37 you have to accept my re-arrangement of Sanskrit past 25 = M. I have been able to esoterically arrange Sanskrit correctly past its 25th letter M based on its Katapayadhi values, which are actually just the 0-9 serial Sanskrit code. See Hulse's "The Eastern Mysteries" Sanskrit chapter for reference.
This results in:
26-Sh
27-S
28-H
29-L (the Pali L)
30-Ks (the conjunction K + Sh as 1+26 as Alpha and Omega)
31-Y
32-R
33-L
34-V
35-SSee there is a discrepancy in the traditional order of Sanskrit past its 25th letter M with the Katapayadhi values. For example Y is the 26th consonant but is valued at 1, and this poses a discrepancy as the 0-9 serial value of 26 is 6, not 1. I thus posit Y as the 31st consonant. This changes the letters upon the chakras beginning with Swadhisthana. One proof of this esoteric order is with Ajna which has S & V placed upon it now, the two consonants composing the word ShiVa as the third eye center!
As I say, I think there is 37 Keys so now I can list my attributions based upon the Sanskrit letters:
31/4000: (Y) Air of Quintessence
32/5000: (R) Fire of Quintessence
33/6000: (L) Water of Quintessence
34/7000: (V) Earth of Quintessence
35/8000: (S) Spirit of Quintessence36/9000: Sun of Quintessence
37/10000: Moon of QuintessenceI attribute 30-35 in the Ain Soph Aur, 36 in the Ain Soph, and 37 in the Ain.
This system opens up basically a 36-fold degree initiatory system, 37 being seen as the point in the circle. The system is in line with the AA grade wise, I began receiving it as a system of initiation with my own. It is called "The Nv Free Masonry", its emblem being a delta triangle with an N in it (the v is inversed as the triangle/pyramid's apex). I am ritually enunciating it on the spring equinox of 2010. Here are how the degrees/keys conform to the spheres:
1-4: Malkuth
5-7: Yesod
8-9: Hod
10: Netzach
11-16: Tiphareth
17-19: Geburah
20: Chesed
21-22: Binah
23-28: Chokmah
29: Kether
30-35: Ain Soph Aur
36: Ain Soph
37: AinYou can read more about my Liber DCLXVI and 4774 as Key 30 as the Key of it all per AL III:47 here:
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I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.
Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."
To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.
So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.
Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
@Wizardiaoan said
"I do not think Crowley interpreted Tzaddi being "not the Star" correct, as I state in my original post. This finding in 1999 made me receive a book of the "correct" English names for the Trumps, as well as an expansion of the Trumps to a 30-fold system; it is called Liber DCLXVI Satan."
Just curious - how did you "receive" Liber DCLXVI. I'm asking for a detailed explanation of your manner or receiving this text.
Also why did you name it 666 Satan?
PS: I tried to download your ebook but the file didn't have a file type (ie. what type of a file is it?)