True Will
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@Tikun Olam said
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@Malaclypse said
"up to the point of the K&C, "
Sorry. Bad with jargon here. (Newbie.) K&C?""Knowledge & Conversation." Short of "K&C of the HGA," i.e., "Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel."
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Riiight. Thanks.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Zo, it's a very common misconception to confuse the Discovery of the True Will with the K&C of the HGA. I'm not clear where the idea arose, but it's an idea that is fairly widespread. I'm delighted to have any hand in dispersing it."
I wonder if it's that part in Liber Samekh (scholion near the end) that says that the HGA is an "intelligible image" of one's True Will. That whole discussion always has seemed to imply such a deep connection to me: i.e., you don't Know one without Knowing the other.
But it's good to know that many people make substantial progress before the K&C!
Back to DavidH's initial question:
"How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling?"
It seems to me from this, and from some of the initial (valuable!) replies, that it's possible to question this too much - i.e., to "micro-manage" one's True Will. Is it the best use of one's time and effort to "test" every little action to see if it's in conformity with the True Will? I always have thought about the True Will as more related to a "top-level" life goal than to a moment-by-moment analysis. The moment-by-moment stuff comes more naturally if the big picture is clearer.
Saying "Will" before a meal seems to be one way of linking back to the big picture while still concentrating on the here and now.
I don't mean to imply that anyone here is doing anything wrong! While I think I'm on the path to knowing my True Will, I certainly am not there yet (and would have a tough time putting any of it into words). Take the above with a grain of earthy salt!
Steve
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@Steven Cranmer said
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Saying "Will" before a meal seems to be one way of linking back to the big picture while still concentrating on the here and now.
Steve"
You know, the more I do Will--ie, consciously 'fortify' myself, consciously state that I am doing so--eating--in order to support my accomplishment of the Great Work, etc.--the more I state this at Every Meal, I feel closer to finding my True Will, and this deep feeling of rightness about being on this path.
I agree with you, Steven, it does link the here and now with the big picture--thanks for bringing up that point.
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93, All,
Thanks guys!
Ok, I got the big picture on this now. Jim, I really appreciate you response. It
really is very close to what I had thought in the first place but couldn't articulate. In fact, I have been quite aware of the distinction between a growing congnizance of one's True Will and K&C of one's HGA. I believe it was you who helped clarify that several months ago in another threadI guess what had thrown me is what goes on before that crucial 'articulation' you described during your retirement as a, is that Zelator? (2=9 A.'.A.'.)
Now, I believe I get it. Please correct me if needed: There is no real clear starting point in grasping, or becoming aware of one's True Will. A person, especially one such as would be asking these sorts of questions is already on their way. The 'lucid articulation' of that True Will is, of course, not guaranteed. A lot of work still potentially needs to be done, but the paths are already under foot.
Or to put it another way: The ego is attracted to the solar system. The Child experiences birth. The Man or Woman experiences life.
To be perfectly frank: I'm still a godawful mess. However, the pendulum swing has slowed down quite a bit. I've noticed that when a pendulum slows, it starts to circle more widely for a while. Two distinct 'feelings' have started to manifest in the past several months. One, I really have started to feel as if I'm in a gestational period (a lot of planning and waiting, ie. deciding to go back to school and applying for financial aid, etc., a lot of simple meditation and such, but also several prolonged and unplanned bouts of just sleeping--and I mean for days--but without other symptoms of depression) and, two, my thinking patterns have started to change which has led to some surprise and puzzlement by people who have thought they know me (ie. changes in tactics at work and even my scrapping of certain plans wholesale that involve other people. It's almost as if I'm starting to respect people more by caring about them less! )
Things are slowly starting to become clearer. Especially recurring patterns in my life. It aint easy to change, but who the hell said it was!
93 93/93,
Fr Z. T.
Via Est Hodie -
Hi Andie, 93
@Andie said
"You know, the more I do Will--ie, consciously 'fortify' myself, consciously state that I am doing so--eating--in order to support my accomplishment of the Great Work, etc.--the more I state this at Every Meal, I feel closer to finding my True Will, and this deep feeling of rightness about being on this path."
What is this? Where can I find something to read more about it? This is yet another new thing to me.
93 93/93,
Donna -
Will, the Thelemic version of "grace" before meals, is found in a footnote in Book Four, Part III, Chapter XIII:
@Perdurab said
"In an Abbey of Thelema we "say Will" before a meal. The formula is as follows. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." "What is thy Will?" "It is my will to eat and drink." "To what end?" "That my body may be fortified thereby." "To what end?" "That I may accomplish the Great Work." "Love is the law, love under will." "Fall to!" This may be adapted as a monologue. One may also add the inquiry "What is the Great Work?" and answer appropriately, when it seems useful to specify the nature of the operation in progress at the time. The point is to seize every occasion of bringing every available force to bear upon the objective of the assault. It does not matter what the force is (by any standard of judgement) so long as it plays its proper part in securing the success of the general purpose. Thus, even laziness may be used to increase our indifference to interfering impulses, or envy to counteract carelessness. See "Liber 175," The Equinox I(7), p. 37 [and Appendix VII, p. 627]. This is especially true, since the forces are destroyed by the process. That is, one destroys a complex which in itself is "evil," and puts its elements to the one right use."
Rather than saying "fall to" at the end, my sweetie says "B'tay-avone" and I know that some people say "Bon Appétit," either of which I believe to be much prettier than the original.
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Hey, all!
This is slightly off topic, BUT, as this coversation sort of framed my day, I thought I should share. I'd like to recommend the movie The Lady in the Water. It's in theaters right now. Maybe it's just because I was reading this thread today, but when I watched the movie this evening, it struck me as being all about finding your true will.
Of course, I've been known to find meaning in very... odd places. -shrug-
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93 Andie,
Thanks! (Not only for citing it, but even including the full text!)
Using this as a reminder throughout the day is going to be a great help. To me, learning one's True Will seems to be a process of discovery (with a long learning curve for some of us!) But each step is an occasion for joy.
93 93/93,
Donna -
@Tikun Olam said
"Hey, all!
This is slightly off topic, BUT, as this coversation sort of framed my day, I thought I should share. I'd like to recommend the movie The Lady in the Water. It's in theaters right now. Maybe it's just because I was reading this thread today, but when I watched the movie this evening, it struck me as being all about finding your true will.
Of course, I've been known to find meaning in very... odd places. -shrug-"
My sweetie and I noticed the same True Will themes running through the film and it led to much discussion over Greek food after. I came out of it thinking that I would have done so, so much more with it! It was so close to being a good, no, great film, but it just fell short. I like the mythology aspect. The Sweetness said that "Shyamalan was too cowardly to truly pursue the questions of True Will which arose during that godawfully dull film."
snickers
Ok, that's enough. I'm afraid I'm going to give out spoilers if I type any more. However, it might be interesting if more people saw it and we started a new thread of discussion about the Thelemic themes within...with spoilers, of course.
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Heh. I suppose it could have been stronger. Like I said, it was framed for me with this conversation. I guess I just wasn't expecting to get that message from that direction.
And you know me. I love to discuss movies. Set up the thread... and tell me where it is. I'll be there! With bells on, even. -
93!
Hello,
I'm finding this topic of much interest as I have been contemplating it a great deal lately. In my recent change from a straight up Golden Dawn person to a Thelemite, I've tended to compare things from a Qabbalistic perspective. I've waded deeply into the Lurianic Texts and find striking similarities between them and Thelema. The concept of Will being Hidden and Revealed, Limited and Unlimited and further Revellation of Will only occurring through progressive Illumination, often requiring specific Mitzvot to adequately prepare the Vessel to receive the Light; as Analogous to the basic premises and practices of both. Our Willed Behavior (Actions - Mitzvot) prepares the forms of the Soul (The Inner Lights - Nephesch, Ruach, Neschamah) to progressively receive further Illumination, which in turn Reveals (throws more light on) more of Our True Will (Return to Perfection) which had until then remained hidden. After the person has had enough Revelation of what was previously hidden, the True Will becomes evident. This is my imperfect take on things at this stage of my experience.
Love is the Law, Love Under Will.
Olen
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@Fra.'. SPQR said
"The fact is becoming attached to the notions of having, wanting to find and carry out a divine-dictated purpose in life jeopardizes a successful passage through the abyss."
WHich, however, almost nobody will encounter in their present incarnations.
But it is the native goal for all to know and do the True Will.
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@Fra.'. SPQR said
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@Fra.'. SPQR said
"The fact is becoming attached to the notions of having, wanting to find and carry out a divine-dictated purpose in life jeopardizes a successful passage through the abyss."@Jim Eshelman said
"Which, however, almost nobody will encounter in their present incarnations."
How times have changed. In Thien Tao Crowley alluded it would take an A.'.A.'. Aspirant ten years to become a Magister Templi; and at that period he wasn't at all confused in the differences between a Magister Templi and a Zelator Magister Templi."
And in the Constitution of the Order of Thelemites he put a formal qualification that a minimum of 11 years must pass between becoming an Adept and becoming a Master. And you can easily find other statements that appear to contradict both of those. He was inconsistent and was feeling his way through as he went.
I'm only saying that, in reality, that's a stage of growth that the vast majority of people in the world (99%+) simply won't reach in their present lifetime. I'm not even saying they couldn't - I really have no way of saying with certainty whether they could or couldn't - I'm only saying they won't.
The Next Step for humanity at this point in species progress is to attain to the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angell In the lifetimes of those currently living, it isn't even likely that a majority - let along "most" - will attain even to this step, though there has been a really definite acceleration of this that can be observed in recent decades.
"What are you, writing on behalf of an A.'.A.'. lineage, saying, exactly?"
I'm making an observation that likely will be fairly plain to most readers. Most people in the world won't even attain that beauteous state that is five grades prior to, and a quantum leap removed from, the one to which you refer. This can be observed pretty easily.
My statement that "almost nobody will encounter [the 8=3 grade] in their present incarnations" is a mathematical statement. There are currently 6.66 billion people in the world (no joke - see www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpo for a current estimation clock), so even 1% is 66.6 million. Unless you expect that 66.6 million of the people currently alive will attain, in their present lifetimes, not only to the Knowledge & Converation of the Holy Guardian Angel (5=6) but to a full Crossing of the Abyss and resting within the City of the Pyramids (8=3), then it is fair statement that "almost nobody" will encounter that experience in their present incarnation.
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A nitpick from someone with nothing better to do right now:
One per cent of 6.66-trillion is 66.6-billion, not 666-billion.
Which is not to say it isn't a really big number.
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"A nitpick from someone with nothing better to do right now:
One per cent of 6.66-trillion is 66.6-billion, not 666-billion.
Which is not to say it isn't a really big number."
Thanks for the catch. I'm going back to edit the original.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"There are currently 6.66 trillion people in the world"
You mean 6.66 billion, don't you?
Dan
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That's what I get for rushing to get out the door. Thanks, all. Math corrected in the original.
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