Beginning Magi
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I am considering the beginning of "mainstream" magickal practices i.e. goetic and enochian. Up until this time I have crafted my own rituals from scratch, and they have had good effect. i would like to diversify my knowledge and experience. Solely interested in further personal evolution for the sake of emancipating humanity from its current bonds. Which system would be more practical for this focus, enochian or goetic? They seem very different to me. Is there perhaps another branch I am missing besides these two?
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I don't know your background, so it's hard to make actual recommendations.
Speaking only in the most general terms: Practice of either of these should IMO come only after extensive magical experience and actual initiation.
Also IMHO, Goetia - if you mean the authentic system instead of a personal variation - is inherently inimical to the well-being of humanity. This is because it employs a specific group of spirits that have been systematically tortured, abused, and commanded for centuries, and which reside in the collective subconsciousness of the human species. Persistence in their torture, or even stirring them up, is an active of accelerating fear and reactivity in the human mass-mind overall IMHO.
[PS - There is a separate area of practice that undertakes the long-term healing and rehabilitation of these spirits. That's generally the work of the Adeptus Major of higher, and shouldn't be confused with standard goetic practice.]
Enochian magick, rightly carried out, is high and holy. It also has the damnable probably that it works almost without exception. Hence the recommendation that considerable magical experience and genuine initiation occur before undertaking this. (It is advantageous if you already know, and can give articulate expression to, your True Will for this incarnation before undertaking any magick that actually works!
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but wouldn't the magician not want to at least PRACTICE doing magick until one could systematically and succesfully achieve RESULTS so that when one does get to the point where they are doing "high" magick they are doing it with skill?
on a more personal note.. why not get good at magick before one has mystically attained? don't both paths kinda meet up eventually anyway?
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There are magick and magick. In a sense, every act is an act of magic, and we are in a position of having to act whether we know our True Will or not.
There is a formula taught by at least one reputable school of occultism by which you carefully formulate your wishes and do magick to obtain them; and by the experience so gained, you eventually learn to discriminate between spurious wishes and the True Will. But if you're not careful, that might be a bumpy ride.
I think it's a question of scale. You can learn to ride a bicycle by getting on one, doing what seems right, and learning from experience what behavior keeps it from falling over. But you wouldn't want to learn to drive a car that way.
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@Jonathan said
"but wouldn't the magician not want to at least PRACTICE doing magick until one could systematically and succesfully achieve RESULTS so that when one does get to the point where they are doing "high" magick they are doing it with skill?
on a more personal note.. why not get good at magick before one has mystically attained? don't both paths kinda meet up eventually anyway?"
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
precisely!
yeah!
love it!
after all, "fear not to undergo the curses"
as for the original post, you don't have to listen to me for Crap but i'd suggest, if you're going to approach either of those systems, to approach them in the ritual framework given in book four part three. as long as your sealing, banishing, giving a good oath, a strong license to depart (or, better yet, to Command!) and your secret adoration to nuit you can't go too far wrong - or at least not so far as you can't correct your errors.
i will say that the enochian material is more challenging, but it lends itself to the aeon of horus in a much more sympathetic fashion.
as far as "abused over the centuries" goes, it's important to remember that the abuse of those demons was a necessary part of the aeon of osiris. things have Changed.
Love is the law, love under will
LIHF -
BNNHKDSH I am quite Intrigued to hear why you want to rush head first into Goetic or Enochian Practice? I would suggest rudimentary Work eg: evocation of elemental or Angelics before moving onto the Goetia as for Enochian its not something you want to rush into. Having experience with both from a practical perspective I will be glad to answer your questions.
"Also IMHO, Goetia - if you mean the authentic system instead of a personal variation - is inherently inimical to the well-being of humanity. This is because it employs a specific group of spirits that have been systematically tortured, abused, and commanded for centuries, and which reside in the collective subconsciousness of the human species. Persistence in their torture, or even stirring them up, is an active of accelerating fear and reactivity in the human mass-mind overall IMHO."
Jim I agree with your synopsis on how these entities have been treated through millenia but personal experience proves that cajoling and abuse is not the only way to approach these beings. respect and Integrity goes along way. Liek anything its about building a relationship trust and respect etc
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@Frater SI said
"Jim I agree with your synopsis on how these entities have been treated through millenia but personal experience proves that cajoling and abuse is not the only way to approach these beings. respect and Integrity goes along way. Liek anything its about building a relationship trust and respect etc"
Agreed. But (1) that's not Goetia and (2) it doesn't change the fact that these same beings have been abused and tortured for centuries. You can't take a victim of years (in this case, centuries) of abuse and, just by treating them respectfully, immediately start getting respectful and non-pathological responses from them.
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Jim I am not disagreeing with you sometimes forums are not conducive to these kind of discussions .. But yes for sure some Goetics are extremely impatient and short with you when you first work with them some are just a no no by there nature, they are volatile and can be useful in respect to there ability when you require them .. But after sometime you can build a rapport that is beneficial to both parties.