True Will... How do you put it to use in daily life?
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93,
I may not be much help to you in this, but I'm feeling posty today, so, here goes.
Firstly, I don't think I can agree with you that no two Wills can contradict one another. I think people get too caught up in the star analogy. They picture in their head massive gaseous bodies moving through space and think, "How grand, we all have room to do our Wills." However life on Earth doesn't afford that kind of space, and although my understanding of the true Will is incomplete, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that two true Wills could contradict one another, or at the very least the implementation of two True Will could contradict one another on the material plane, where there are scarce resources, opportunities, oranges, etc. The collision of galaxies being a wonderful thing, and all that (to rely on an admittedly insufficient metaphor.)
For this reason, and some others, I cannot see Thelema as pacifistic...
As for the remainder of your post, I would say that from my conception the True will is less a thing, a more a state. When our consciousness rises high enough (where is the HGA? Tiphareth? My knowledge of Qabalah is quite limited) we achieve a certain state that is indescribable but is our own personal Dao, or God-Consciousness, or whatever. I'm not saying that these conceptions are the same, but I do think they refer to the same thing.
So for me, assuming I one day reach this state, the goal would be to stay in it as much as possible, and in doing so my True Will would manifest in my daily life without "my" interference.
But perhaps someone who has first-hand experience of this state would like to respond.
Love=Law
- Shangren
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"Firstly, I don't think I can agree with you that no two Wills can contradict one another."
I regard this as being a root postulate of Thelema, virtually the baseline of its entire moral, physical, and metaphysical philosophy, and certainly of its practice.
"it seems perfectly reasonable to me that two true Wills could contradict one another, or at the very least the implementation of two True Will could contradict one another on the material plane,"
Ah! There I agree with you. Restriction of circumstance can cause the appearance of such conflict. But, I hold, the actual conflict doesn't exist.
"For this reason, and some others, I cannot see Thelema as pacifistic..."
It depends on what you mean by that. I think one of the deeper truths inherent in the twin aspect of Horus is that peace is power and power is peace - they are an identity. (Or: Real strength is silent, not noisy.)
"As for the remainder of your post, I would say that from my conception the True will is less a thing, a more a state."
No disagreement with you on this ultimately - but, in practice, it is my experience that this state is the consequence of acting in alignment with some conditions. In other words, you usually can profitably ask, "What are you most commonly doing when sliding into that state?" - While doing is the most intimate of being, the two shouldn't be confused; and, in Thelema, "the first word of the Law" is DO.
"When our consciousness rises high enough (where is the HGA? Tiphareth? My knowledge of Qabalah is quite limited) we achieve a certain state that is indescribable but is our own personal Dao, or God-Consciousness, or whatever. I'm not saying that these conceptions are the same, but I do think they refer to the same thing."
You're (I think understandably) mixing a whole lot of planes here. The integrated, articulatable knowledge of one's True Will shouldn't be confused with the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel - it's often a much earlier step. On the other hand, living Taoism (at least, at any full level) is significantly later than Tiphereth. (The gap from 5=6 at Tiphereth to 6=5 in Geburah is, alone, a remarkable step in this.) But, overall, I agree with the ideas you're stringing together in this.
"So for me, assuming I one day reach this state, the goal would be to stay in it as much as possible, and in doing so my True Will would manifest in my daily life without "my" interference."
Having lived consciously in this state most hours of most days for the last 22 years, I recommend it enthusiastically. - But do recognize, please, that it isn't passive. There is progressively less effort required, but there is a continued passionate doing as the hallmark of life. Etc. etc. and blah de blah, of course.
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If I understand correctly what you said....
This is what comes to my mind...It's something I wrote several years ago..
It is both my mantra and prayer ever since...I try and live by this...I am never alone since all is onected.. Though my understanding has changed some, since I have discovered Thelema.Crowely says...something like...If you are truley following your True Will...then you have the enersia of the whole universe...that seems to me a reastful thought.
When I wrote it I was trying to be a good christian.
Resting
As I'm resting in your arms, and the shadows fade away
Each dawns a new beginning as I see the light of day.
You are the light of the world,Worthy to be praised,
And the sweet sound of salvation is music to my ears!
As I give my life to you.
Lift me up! Shine through me! Holy spirit carry me;
To the place safe in your arms.
Where I am sheltered from the storm,
Knowing I am not alone,
As I'm resting in your arms.
As I'm resting in your arms And the shadows fade away
Each dawns a new beginning As I see the light of day.
A reflection of your love, I was made for you
And my heart begins to tremble
As I give my life to you.
Lift me up! Shine though me! Holy spirit carry me;
To the place safe in your arms.
Where I am sheltered from the storm,
Knowing I am not alone,
As I'm resting in your arms.Judy
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That's beautiful - and a remarkable expression of (at least some major aspects of) the relationship of the aspirant with the Holy Guardian Angel.
I think it would be misleading to confuse this with knowing and doing your True Will.
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93,
I actually don't think we disagree all that much, Jim, I just think I was suffering from an inability to express myself clearly. I'm sort of new to forum life; my e-mails are similarly confused; I pray you'll never be on the receiving end of one.
What I guess I meant about conflict is better described by Plotinus. When asked how someone who had achieved union with the one would view the events of this world he replied, (I'm paraphrasing,)
If a group of wealthy youths came to you and complained that during the day they had been attacked by another gang of youths, beaten, and their clothes had been stolen, wouldn't you laugh at their silly childlike seriousness?
I will continue my study of Qabalah. I'm almost through Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah, which is my first real stab at it. She constructs some long sentences...
Love=Law
- Shangren
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That's beautiful - and a remarkable expression of (at least some major aspects of) the relationship of the aspirant with the Holy Guardian Angel.
I think it would be misleading to confuse this with knowing and doing your True Will."
93 Thank you for your reply...
I'm glad you liked my poem...I agree it's more an expression of a relationship with HGA...I had several such comunications this particular year...this being the last in the series...
However, when we percieve of doing our Will, where is it that we find the voice of our True Will or Pure Will if not through a relationship of our HGA?
I think it must be based on more than the chatter in our head that says this that or the other thing....how else do we define purpose?Of course we could listen to the daily chatter in our heads... and decide on something in which to act...a better job or what have you...but is that our Will or our ego?
"The Law Is For All" Reference pg. 97-98 “Do what thou wilt” is not a literal license to do whatever you want..
As in all law, there are limits that we must operate under.
The phrase, “Love is the law, Love under will” set these limits. -
Vs. 41 Liber AL “The word of sin is restriction”
Anything that hinders, binds or diverts us from doing our will, is sin. So also, to interfere with the will of another is “The Great Sin”I think this statement says that any action we take.. out of malice, to hinder or harm another, not only diverts them from their natural coarse but ultimately diverts us also. And does nothing, but cause pain and sorrow for all concerned.
So, this being siad, I think that the aperrent will of one can interfear with another.
Or may be this apperent interfearence is something we need to experience in order to grow and learn something vital about who we really are and where our purpose lies. -
@Jim Eshelman said
"It depends on what you mean by that. I think one of the deeper truths inherent in the twin aspect of Horus is that peace is power and power is peace - they are an identity. (Or: Real strength is silent, not noisy.)
"The peace = power is a great thought. Can you elaborate further on the twin aspect of Horus that suggests this?
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@h2h said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"It depends on what you mean by that. I think one of the deeper truths inherent in the twin aspect of Horus is that peace is power and power is peace - they are an identity. (Or: Real strength is silent, not noisy.)"The peace = power is a great thought. Can you elaborate further on the twin aspect of Horus that suggests this?"
Sorry, I failed to itemize this. I forget that not everyone has the basics.
Heru-Ra-Ha is a transcendent expression of two polarized aspects: Ra-Hoor-Khuit who is active, outpouring, representative of strength, power, etc.; and Hoor-Paar-Kraat (Harpocrates), who is passive-receptive and introverting, and expresses silence, peace, etc.
They correspond (for example) to the twin Neophyte Signs of the Golden Dawn, "The Sign of the Enterer" and "The Sign of Silence."
These are not opposites except in the sense that they are two sides of a single coin, two expressions of a single, deeper idea.
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93,
Like Martin Luther King said,
"What is needed is a realization that power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic."
Love=Law
- C
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"Like Martin Luther King said,
"What is needed is a realization that power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic."
"Wow! I hadn't ever seen this King quote before. How closely it parallels Liber Librae:
"Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil. Act passionately; think rationally; be Thyself."
(which Crowley mainly adapted from various Golden Dawn papers... which is a propos of nothing, except that it traces the chain of this particular idea even further back...)
Steve
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93
I love all the great responses to my post!
Thank you..This helps me very much...and I would love to keep this discussion going a bit longer...I recently read: “The Law Is For All” Written by Aleister Crowley and Edited by Isreal Regardie. most of my notes were taken from this book...I think I missed marking some of the quotes though...sorry
This seemed to me, to be a good place to begin my study; since it seems to be the major tenant of the Thelemic belief system.
I sifted through this work and have taken some notes, and added some of my own thoughts about the topic: True Will.Reference pg. 97-98 “Do what thou wilt” is not a literal license to do whatever you want..
As in all law, there are limits that we must operate under.
The phrase, “Love is the law, Love under will” set these limits.Vs. 41 Liber AL “The word of sin is restriction”
Anything that hinders, binds or diverts us from doing our Will, is sin. So also, to interfere with the will of another is “The Great Sin”I think this statement says that any action we take.. out of malice, to hinder or harm another, not only diverts them from their natural coarse but ultimately diverts us also. And does nothing, but cause pain and sorrow for all concerned.
This law, “Do what thou wilt” simply stated means that we must follow our own coarse, and our own inherent nature.
Reference pg. 102 When our thoughts and actions are in harmony, we are then, “Doing what thou wilt.”
**Vs.43 Liber AL “Do that and no other shall say nay”**The power of our will is so great, that by asserting our rights as free people with purpose, and acting according to our own individual coarse, our own nature, that Will, would not go challenged for long.
I am not sure I agree with the above statement fully. We are all faced with challenge each day, to choose between our own nature and the many diversities of this universe. Hopefully, we learn from these daily challenges and press on despite them.
By asserting our will, our right, we appeal to The Law.
**vs. 44 Liber AL “For pure will unassuaged of purpose delivered from the lust of result is in every way perfect.”**These two verses, define pure will as the true expression of our own nature.The comment on this word (unassuaged) says something like…not to be dulled or blunted.
I take this to mean.. as I have read elsewhere, That our thoughts and **actions **must be one pointed and with the same purpose.
This is not to say that the journey will always be easy or care free. We are always challenged with diversity and the strong opinions of others. We are all entitled to our own thoughts, and opinions and actions; but ultimately we must decide or discover for our selves what is for the best good; what is our Will; and Act accordingly.
Reference: Sylvia Brown's If You Could See What I See....tenent vii ...Know that each life is a path winding toward perfection. It is the step after step that is hard, not the whole of the journey.
Reference pg. 103 People who are ready to defend their right, to do and be what they Will, are respected and left alone.
While on the contrary, the slave spirit invites oppression.And oppression comes easy when our thoughts and actions are in conflict.
For instance; when you know good and well what is right, and then do the contrary; you invite conflict.
When our thoughts are divided between duty and our own nature, we have not found balance, and this is the beginning of conflict.
For instance; when you have loved ones who depend on you; You must balance between responsibility to them and the things that separate you from them.
The pure student is not concerned with lust of result. He is concerned with the task at hand; his own journey of self awareness, self expression, and discovering the universe around him. His purpose is one pointed.
Each of us must follow our own coarse.To seek to swerve our coarse is to interfere with another.
Reference Pg. 167 Sorrow appears as the result of any unsuccessful, ill judged struggle.
(Such as the purposeful interference with another or not being prepared)Acquiescence in the order of nature is the ultimate wisdom.
We must live according to our own nature or suffer.Reference Pg.176 The sole test of one’s Lordship is to know what our **True Will **is, and to do it.
Beauty and strength, come from doing one’s Will.Reference Pg.198-215 We must become aware of our true selves.
If we give up our own authority as absolute individuals, we are liable to submit to the laws of others, and feel ourselves as puppets and suffer the agonies of impotence.
Vs. 42 Liber AL “Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.”
The process of self analysis involves certain risks.
vs. 46 Liber AL “Dost thou fail? Art thou sorry? Is fear in thine heart?”
Reference pg 214 When you have the right understanding of the universe, and know yourself free, immortal, boundless, infinite force and fire; then may you Will and dare.
For fear, sorrow and failure will be but shadows.
You must chase away the shadows with lightening and fire.
Fire is, “Do what thou wilt!”To summarize, as I understand it;
The premise of “** Do what thou wilt”** is to do and act. It does not mean to sit still waiting for the universe to come around and be what we think it should be.
If we desire a certain outcome we must act in a way that will produce the outcome we desire.We all, weather we recognize it or not are connected, and so, our thoughts and actions have an effect on everything, and every one.
We can easily visualize the ripple effect of tossing a pebble into a pool water. The most obvious changes occur near where the pebble made it’s splash down. The ripple effect continues to move outward effecting the movement of the water farther and farther out.
And so it goes in life, that same ripple effect our** actions** have on the people around us and in the universe as a whole, reaching farther and farther outward.
**"So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.” **
and "For pure will unassuaged of purpose delivered from the lust of result is in every way perfect.”I take these phrases to mean, that if we are following our Will, we are doing what comes naturally to us. We have passion about the doing and are driven by this passion. We may not ever see the result of our actions in this life time, but we can have a certain confidence that these **passionate efforts **have had a rippling effect that continues to move outward, no matter how small the pebble...
Martin Luther King, for an example, was passionate about what he believed. And although he did not live to see the result of his efforts fully recognized, he has non the less had a profound effect on the world today.
We must act in order of our own nature, for the best good. **“Love under will” **
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Hi frzzlmom,
I'm not sure of TOT's position, but Thelemites generally do not discuss the Book of the Law because of the Tunis Comment:
The Tunis Comment
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The study of this Book is forbidden. It is wise to destroy this copy after the first reading.
Whosoever disregards this does so at his own risk and peril. These are most dire.
Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence.
All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself.
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
Love is the law, love under will.
The priest of the princes,
Ankh-f-n-khonsuHmmmmm I am curious about that "single, deeper idea"...but if I'm correct in my hunch, even AC refused to discuss it openly.
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@h2h said
"Hi frzzlmom,
I'm not sure of TOT's position, but Thelemites generally do not discuss the Book of the Law because of the Tunis Comment:"
It depends on your definition of Thelemite...
But anywho, this topic was discussed here quite lengthely before, myself being involved in it. here -
Well It is my thinking that since Crowley and It seems others puplished these writings over and over and commented on the texts that is it meant for discussion and study.
I am paraphraising but,,,does the Book of the Law also say some thing to the effect that fear is not of us?
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@h2h said
"Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence."
@V.V.V.V.V. said
"Ye shall journey far into a land of pestilence and evil; ye shall encamp in the river of a foolish city forgotten; there shall ye meet with Me. - Liber LXV IV:62"
616
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It’s curious how ppl interpret the Tunis Comment.
Jim, for example, sees it as an “emotional outburst” whereas I am of the opinion AC could barely keep a straight face as he penned those lines. Consider: the reader is presented with Liber Legis, the central law of which is “Do What Thou Wilt” and utterances such as “the word of sin is restriction” that ends with a Comment full of prohibitions and restrictions.
Is this AC’s intelligence test for the reader? Maybe.
The only point I can see in the Tunis Comment is either 1) the Cairo Working and Liber Legis is a hoax and AC is attempting to ensure the game continues as long as possible or 2) the Tunis Comment “seals off” of further commentary on Liber Legis since it is the final word on the New Aeon.
But considering it is “Aiwaz” who allegedly authored Liber Legis, how do we understand the comment “All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings”. Whose writings? Ankh-f-n-khonsu? Aiwaz?? AC???
Certainly the motifs in Liber Legis echo in AC’s other books, but then this would throw into question the authorship of Aiwaz and support the view that Liber Legis was an elaborate hoax and crowning achievement on the part of AC.
Perhaps the Tunis Comment was written to prevent discussions like this from arising…
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@h2h said
"It’s curious how ppl interpret the Tunis Comment.
Jim, for example, sees it as an “emotional outburst”"
BTW that's because of the circumstances of its writing. That is, it was written during an intense bout of grief overwhelm. That's what I meant by the characterization.
"whereas I am of the opinion AC could barely keep a straight face as he penned those lines."
Those weren't the circumstances of the writing.