cost (dues) whatever
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What would be an estimate of the tuition of the C.O.T.? Would it be compared say to, a private college, or more so a public one? I'm guessing there is not kind of financial assistance program though eeh?
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@iamsounreal said
"So, ideally, the dues go only to the operating cost of the specific group that you join, not someones pocket?"
I can't speak for what's right or wrong for someone else. In Temple of Thelema, we arrange such things to cover costs and that's it. (A little overage here and there to keep a working fund, but with the intention on it being available for anticipated expenses.) Nobody gets paid.
"What happens to the excess dues?"
That isn't the normal case
... but it's not a bad idea to keep a floating fund. When we started T.'.O.'.T.'. I put $1,000 cash in and, when we had a little buffer, I pulled it back out. It doesn't hurt to have a little extra.Should a given Temple find themselves in this fortunate position, they're encouraged to donate to the equivalent of Grand Lodge (different name, same idea). These funds, as well, don't go to individual gain but to the given work of the Order as a whole. For example, those funds pay some of my airfare to different places where I lecture (without pay, and never coming close to covering the costs).
"Are there any groups that make their financial information available to all initiates?"
I can only speak for us: Each Temple and Pronaos in T.'.O.'.T.'. makes a full disclosure of its income and expenses twice a year to its membership.
"Would it be correct to say that these are **NOT **enterprises for making money by promising spiritual gains?"
We're legally a not-for-profit tax exempt corporation (and I would be remiss if I failed to state that we welcome your donations, which are tax exempt in the U.S.). Now, tax exempt corporations can, in fact, themselves make a profit, though individuals (owners, principals, stock holders, etc.) cannot do so. Yes, our goal is not to make money per se, and everyone involved works full time jobs to pay the bills. (Between my day job in IT and the Order, I work six to seven days a week. I've managed to get it down to rarely more than a dozen hours a day, but occasionally 20. With little exception, it's been this way for years. Even in April when I took my first real vacation in years, I spent some of the week working on needed ritual revisions.)
"lol i know all this stuff sounds paranoid, but it is my experience that it is very easy to take advantage of people who believe that what is being offered transcends monetary value..."
Our rules require that, in a membership interview, financial requirements are fully disclosed to the applicant, and there is an opportunity to ask questions. We're not going to disclose all private matters to a non-member, but everything affecting them (dues, fees) and the general financial principles are disclosed.
Again, I want to emphasize that this per se doesn't make us better or worse than anybody else. Profit is a valid motive. It just doesn't happen to be ours. (Now, accumulating $30 million or so for a nice permanent temple in the heart of Los Angeles would be a fine goal! LOL)
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I'm wondering if this would be the proper thread to post this question to, but I have joined the B.O.T.A. at this point, and received my first three lessons. I thought I had researched them thoroughly, but perhaps not, either way, I got great recommendations from this board. I am going to do it, but I would like to ask that if anyone here that has been through it felt the material to be worth $15.00/month? I think my hang up is that I'm more drawn to the Thelema Way than others I have found, and this does not line up with that. Any opinions?
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@h3fall3n777 said
"I'm wondering if this would be the proper thread to post this question to, but I have joined the B.O.T.A. at this point, and received my first three lessons. I thought I had researched them thoroughly, but perhaps not, either way, I got great recommendations from this board. I am going to do it, but I would like to ask that if anyone here that has been through it felt the material to be worth $15.00/month? I think my hang up is that I'm more drawn to the Thelema Way than others I have found, and this does not line up with that. Any opinions?"
I am a member of B.O.T.A. & do not find it that far removed from Thelema at all - or any Western Mystery Tradition for that matter. B.O.T.A., like Thelema, extends from the original Golden Dawn, & as such is a continuation of the Rosicrucian Order. Have you read through the first lessons?
616
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@h3fall3n777 said
"but I would like to ask that if anyone here that has been through it felt the material to be worth $15.00/month? I think my hang up is that I'm more drawn to the Thelema Way than others I have found, and this does not line up with that. Any opinions?"
Well, when I was going through it, the fees were only $8/month, but that was proportionate to the time - and yes, I felt it was worth every penny.
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@KRVB MMShCh said
"Have you read through the first lessons?"
Or, I'd be more interested in knowing: Have you applied the first three lessons?
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@h3fall3n777 said
"I would like to ask that if anyone here that has been through it felt the material to be worth $15.00/month? Any opinions?"
I haven't been through it, but what otherwise does $15 buy nowadays? It never ceases to amaze me when I put on a talk by, for example, the 4th most highly rated Historian in British Academia (Chair of History at Bristol University, only Oxford, Cambridge and Edinburgh rate higher), people complain about paying £2 (about $4) because they are unemployed or on low wages, and then, as our meetings are above a pub, manage to spend about £20 on beer during the course of the evening.
So, £5 per lesson. I think that, given the reputation and long history of the B.O.T.A., it would have to be absolute garbage NOT to worth it! -
Yes, I received the first three lessons yesterday in the mail. I just felt like lesson one was reading a little like a self help manual, but then again, from everything else, the B.O.T.A. sounded like a good fit, and more importantly, "felt right." I was just hoping to get some feed back and make sure I wasn't getting into something that was a waste of money. Obviously it sounds like it isn't!
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I also got my 1st 3 lessons yesterday. The wording sounds a little dated but nothing to get hung up over.
Looking forward to applying the lessons and then checking the fruit.
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I don't think money should be an issue for anyone who is any kind of Magician at all. Where there is a Will there is a way. Really. I was confused as to how to get the ball rolling on my studies a while back--I think the secret is to start doing something (anything!) and things will start to fall into place.
I also haven't been confronted with any unreasonable fees by anyone I respect.